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Thread: Input Wanted: Building My Next PC (Updated)

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Root View Post
    Brett,

    I asked earlier in the thread about the different versions of the Asus P5Q
    motherboard, but got no reply. What determined your choice of the version
    you picked out?

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis
    Sorry I missed that, Jeff. I chose that model for a number of reasons: technical reviews, consumer ratings and feedback, price point, and feature set. Some of the pricier models have extras like WiFi and 16 phase power that I'm not moyivated to spend more on.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    There's the quandry...

    A local store has an MSI P7N SLI Platinum mobo. As "Core 2" is Intel's 64-bit line, the P45 supports 64 bit, quad, 1333 FSB, and DDR 2. Alas, it doesn't support DDR 3 (the chipset does - just not that mobo). It only supports up to DDR2-800.

    Checking into DDR3, I found this entry. In a nutshell, it promises 30% less power, significantly more (100% more) data transfers per second and a correspondingly faster peak transfer rate. Latencies are roughly the same (duration).

    Question: How much of a performance hit will I notice using, say, DDR2-800 vs DDR3-1333, all things else being equal?
    Almost none, as memory bandwidth is rarely the limiting factor. For system RAM, quantity is far more important than speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    If "not much," then I'll skip DDR3, save the bucks, and go with the MSI.

    (screeching brakes sound)

    I just checked MSI's website, and the P7N SLI Platinum isn't anywhere close to their top of the line. I don't want/need top of the line. I do want to hit the "magic shoulder" or "sweet spot" of the price-performance curve, just before the point where increasing price ceases yielding significant increases in performance.

    Their P45 Platinum board extends the FSB speed from the P7N's 1300 to 1600, and the DDR2 memory from 800 to 1200, while the Diamond version of their P45 goes with DDR3 memory up to 1600.

    Meanwhile, all will take Core 2 Quads up to 1300 FSB (and beyond).

    Back at Wikipedia's List of Intel Core 2 microprocessors, I find your Q9550 to be a 2.8 GHz, 1333 FSB LGA 775.

    This sounds reasonable. And it appears the latest release, Aug 08's SLB8V (E0) runs around $300. But the 9450, an earlier model went for the same when it was released, so I suspect it's prices are $300 * 316/530 = $188. Call it $200.

    So we're at:

    Likely Q9550, the more recent version.

    I don't have enough info to ascertain mobo performance, but I suspect that the P45 Platinum, with it's high-end DDR2 capability would be an monetarily acceptable alternative to the more expensive P45 Diamond (DDR3) and the much more expensive DDR3 memory.
    I'd say the P45 platinum is definitely a good choice. You'd see almost no performance hit with the slower RAM.

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    Still, I do not have a good feel for how much of a performance hit I'd see (feel, experience) if I went with DDR2 1066 vs DDR3 1333.

    As for SLI vs Crossfire, I talked with several people from different shops who do nothing but build machines all day long and game all night long. All said pretty much the same thing: Yes, Crossfire X is a (finally) solution to the single-monitor constraint with SLI and earlier versions of Crossfire. However, nVidea has always had the lion's share of the gaming market over the last 6 years, and SLI is no exception. Few sell Crossfire, and only on request, as far more games have SLI support than Crossfire support (although just about all will run on either approach, but without the finer, platform-specific tweaks).

    Thus, if I do opt for a dual-card system, it'll be SLI.
    Why? Most people have done SLI because it has been the better solution for a long time. Until now. ATI's 4800 series cards are walking all over any of Nvidia's, with the Crossfire scaling better than SLI. Plus, Crossfire can be used on that Intel motherboard you were looking at - you'd need an Nvidia chipset for SLI.

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    So - Two Remaining Questions:
    1. What's the performance hit for DDR2 vs DDR3 as stated above?

    2. Do I really need SLI? For playing MS FlightSim X or X-Planes (or their next versions)? Or would the money I save (cheaper mobo and a single graphics card) be better spent upgrading the graphics card to a more top of the line model and adding a second, cheap, PCIe dual-monitor card for the left and right information only screens of my three-screen display?
    For FSX (not sure about X-planes), you don't need much graphics horsepower - it cares far more about CPU speed. I'd say if that's what you'll be doing, multiple cards are a waste of money in your case. Oh, and as I stated before, DDR3 is somewhat of a waste of money right now.

  3. #63
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    Brett,

    What features of the Asus P5Q-E LGA make it a better choice for you than
    the Asus P5Q Pro?

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis

  4. #64
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    The main difference I see is that the P5Q-E LGA has a better onboard sound (including an optical output). Other than that, I don't see much of a difference.

  5. #65
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    Yep, the differences are pretty minor. The reason I whittled the Pro out of contention was the overall impression of consumer ratings and feedback. That's not to say that the Pro board looked like a dog. The P5Q-E just looked a bit better in comparison and with a price difference of just $20 at NewEgg, I thought the scales tipped it in its favor.
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  6. #66
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    Originally Posted by mugaliens
    So - Two Remaining Questions:
    1. What's the performance hit for DDR2 vs DDR3 as stated above?

    2. Do I really need SLI? For playing MS FlightSim X or X-Planes (or their next versions)? Or would the money I save (cheaper mobo and a single graphics card) be better spent upgrading the graphics card to a more top of the line model and adding a second, cheap, PCIe dual-monitor card for the left and right information only screens of my three-screen display?
    Quote Originally Posted by cjl View Post
    For FSX (not sure about X-planes), you don't need much graphics horsepower - it cares far more about CPU speed. I'd say if that's what you'll be doing, multiple cards are a waste of money in your case. Oh, and as I stated before, DDR3 is somewhat of a waste of money right now.
    cjl, thanks for taking the time to review my post and ferret out some good answers - I appreciate that a lot!

    One of the reasons I'm still using (quite happily) my current system after six years is because I configured it for at least three years in the future.

    So, some more questions!

    1. You say I won't notice the performance difference between DDR2 and DDR3 memory now, that memory speed just isn't the bottleneck that processor (flight sims) or graphics performance (fps games) is. But is that experience with 32-bit XP or Vista? Is it with games (FSX) written for a 32-bit OS, ie, not written for a 64-bit OS?

    I guess what I'm asking is "what's the performance difference between same-speed DDR2 and DDR3 likely to be running games written/optimized for 64-bit Vista or its successor?"

    I'm far less interested in what I'll notice now as I am in what I'll be able to do (or not be able to do) three years from now.

    I done real good with my current system for just about everything. My only limitation has been the 4x AGP ceiling.

    Which brings us to the second question:

    2. So what you're telling me is that if I go with the P45, AMD's bridging technology uses the PCIe bus and the Intel chipset, rather than a proprietary nVidia chipset? But that if I go P45, I'm locked out of using SLI or it's future versions, which will likely include multiple-monitor capability.

    So, question: With the P45, can I use a high-end graphics card for my single monitor (hi-res) and an average, dual-out card for my two side monitors?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    1. You say I won't notice the performance difference between DDR2 and DDR3 memory now, that memory speed just isn't the bottleneck that processor (flight sims) or graphics performance (fps games) is. But is that experience with 32-bit XP or Vista? Is it with games (FSX) written for a 32-bit OS, ie, not written for a 64-bit OS?
    It has more to do with the front side bus on the current Intel processors, and the inherent bottleneck associated with it. All data retrieved from the memory goes through the front side bus, so no matter what you are running, the memory won't be the bottleneck. DDR3 will become worthwhile when that FSB is removed, which is happening with the next generation Intel processors. Whether it is 64 bit or 32 bit has very little to do with it.

    Oh, and don't take this to mean that the front side bus is a huge handicap. It really isn't, but that's mostly because almost no program today is held up by memory bandwidth, and the few that are tend to be limited by the front side bus, rather than the RAM itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    I guess what I'm asking is "what's the performance difference between same-speed DDR2 and DDR3 likely to be running games written/optimized for 64-bit Vista or its successor?"

    I'm far less interested in what I'll notice now as I am in what I'll be able to do (or not be able to do) three years from now.
    Unless you wait for the new CPUs (Nehalem), there shouldn't ever be a noticeable difference between reasonably fast (800-1066MHz) DDR2 and DDR3.

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    I done real good with my current system for just about everything. My only limitation has been the 4x AGP ceiling.

    Which brings us to the second question:

    2. So what you're telling me is that if I go with the P45, AMD's bridging technology uses the PCIe bus and the Intel chipset, rather than a proprietary nVidia chipset? But that if I go P45, I'm locked out of using SLI or it's future versions, which will likely include multiple-monitor capability.
    Correct - the P45 supports Crossfire, but not SLI. It hasn't really got anything to do with hardware capability though as far as I know - it is simply locked out in the Nvidia drivers to force more people to buy their chipsets, despite the fact that Intel has by far the more solid and reliable chipsets.

    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    So, question: With the P45, can I use a high-end graphics card for my single monitor (hi-res) and an average, dual-out card for my two side monitors?
    I can't see any reason why not - that should work just fine.

  8. #68
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    True...Nvidia has not licensed SLI to Intel so if one wants SLI, one has to buy a mobo with an Nvidia chipset.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetersCreek View Post
    True...Nvidia has not licensed SLI to Intel so if one wants SLI, one has to buy a mobo with an Nvidia chipset.
    My question there would be, "Do all late-model motherboards with Intel chipsets automatically support Crossfire via PCI Express? No additional hardware required? No additional chipsets required?"

    If that's the case, and since SLI motherboards also sport PCI Express, what's to prevent me from getting an SLI motherboard and slapping a couple of Crossfire video cards in there, since they run on PCI Express?

  10. #70
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    Drivers.

    Most people wish this wasn't the case, but as of right now, for no reason other than drivers locking out the feature on non supported boards, crossfire only works on AMD and Intel boards, and SLI only works on Nvidia.

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    Muglist and analysis

    Couple of changes afoot, particularly in the storage arena. Here's the buy as it currently stands:

    Core 2 Quad Comparison Systems:

    Dell XPS 630: $1,319
    Velocity Micro ProMagix E2240: $1,999
    HP Pavilion Elite Media Center m9040n: $899

    Sources:

    List of Intel chipsets

    List of Intel microprocessors

    List of Intel Core 2 microprocessors

    Intel's Desktop Processor Comparison Chart

    DDR2 SDRAM

    1. Chipset: Intel P45, Eaglelake (G), Southbridge - ICH10/ICH10R, Released June 2008, Supports Core 2 Quad and Core 2 Duo, 45nm support, FSB at 800/1066/1333 MHz, Supports either DDR3 at 800/1066/1333 MHz or DDR2 at 667/800/1066 MHz, Supports up to 16 GB RAM (non-parity and non-ECC), Graphics slots include one x16 PCIe 2.0 and two x8 PCIe 2.0 slots.

    Possible Motherboards:

    MSI P45 Neo3: DDR2, six internal SATA ports, two earmarked for RAID 1 (leaving the other four useable as regular SATA).

    MSI P45 Diamond: DDR3

    Probably go with the MSI P45 Platinum LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail Cost: $160.

    2. Processor: Either the Core 2 Quad Processor Q9650 or the Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E8600. According to Intel's Desktop Processor Comparison Chart, the Q9650 and the E8600 work on P45 chipsets, while the Q9550 does not. Both are LGA775 sockets.

    Comparison:

    E8600: 3.3 GHz, 6.1 GB L2, 1333 MHz FSB. Release price: $266

    Q9650: 3.0 GHz, 6.1 GB L2, 1333 MHz FSB. Release price: $530

    If someone can confirm (via a link to a page on Intel's website) that the Q9550 is expressly certified by Intel for the P45 chipset, I'll buy that $316 puppy instead of the $200 more expensive Q9650.

    Probably go with the Intel Core 2 Duo E8600 Wolfdale 3.33GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail Cost: $275

    3. RAM:

    One source says, "optimally, the memory bandwidth afforded should match the bandwidth of the FSB closely." It also said, "for the Conroe CPUs with FSB of 1066, the ideal memory speed for DDR2 is PC2-4200 or PC2-8500" and claimed that PC2-5300 actually decreased performanced over the 4200.

    The issue is that DDR2 RAM is only available up to 1066 MHz. Thus, I'm concerned the 1333 MHz processor is overkill, and might actually be slower than the Q6700 (Quad at 1066 FSB).

    Thus, run the bus (mobo), the processor, and the RAM all at 1066 MHz. - Does this sound right?

    Probably go with 4GB, which will Cost: $150

    4. Video Card: PCI Express 2.0 x16 card. Don't know which one, yet - probably whatever the budget can afford after I'm done with the rest.

    Probably go with something like the SAPPHIRE 100242-1GL Radeon HD 4850 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail Cost: $230.

    5. Hard Disk Storage
    Volume C: Purpose: OS + Programs. Format: WD VelociRaptor, 300 GB (1.4 million hrs MTBF??? !!!), 3 Gb/s, 16 MB Cache, 10,000 RPM. Cost: $400. Justification: 15x the MTBF than my last computer's drives. I've got a 120 GB RAID 1 array for critical information / backup, and a 1 TB drive for non-critical backup. I'll buy a commercial defragger.

    Volume D: Purpose: Critical info storage. Format: 120 GB RAID 1. Cost: $0 (already own).

    6. DVD +/- R/RW: Samsung DVD Writer, Super Writemaster 22x (fairly redundant, if you ask me!). Cost: $0 (already own).

    7. CD Player: Yamaha. Cost: $0 (already own).

    8. Power Supply: Xilence 800W (latest and greatest). Cost: $0 (already own).

    9: Case Fans: 3 (something or others - brand new, $13 for all three, and they're quiet but effective). Cost: $0 (already own)

    10: Case: Antec ATX, circa 2002, back then, about $100. Cost: $0 (already own).
    - 6 x 3-1/2" HD bays (internal)
    - 4 x 5-1/4" DVD/CD bays open to front
    - 2 3-1/2" Floppy/Accessory bays open to front

    11: Power Conditioning: Belkin Surge Protector (the expensive one). Cost: $0 (already own).

    12: Operating System (I almost forgot!): Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 32/64-bit English NA DVD Retail. Cost: $277.

    Upgrade Cost Summary:

    1. Mobo: $170
    2. Processor: $275
    3. RAM: $150
    4. Video Card: $230
    5. Hard Drive: $400
    6. DVD: $0
    7. CD: $0
    8. Pwr Supply: $0
    9. Case Fans: $0
    10: Case: $0
    11: Pwr Conditioning: $0
    12: OS: $277

    To be honest, I have to tack on the cost of the Pwr Supply and the Case Fans, which I bought last week. That's an additional $150.

    Upgrade Cost: $1,652

    The mean of our comparison systems was $1,406. However, thumbing through this month's gaming magazines and subtracting for the hardware I already have, I'd be paying around $1,800 for their systems, so I'm only saving about $150.

    However, it's not their system - it's my system. Anything goes wrong, I can fix it.

    And since I've already sunk $150, at this point the cost of finishing the upgrade would be $1,500.

    With all that said, I'm having second thoughts about upgrading...! True, I can't do the latest flight sims on my current system, but I can do everything else, and I've got enough room to slap in another 1 GB of RAM, for less than $50.

    If I decide to put off upgrading for a while, I'm thinking of getting ONKYO TX-SR606 Black 7.1 Channel Receiver, as it has four HDMI inputs, one HDMI out, supports the HD sound codecs, all the Blueray ones, and tons of other audio/video ins/outs.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjl View Post
    Drivers... ...crossfire only works on AMD and Intel boards, and SLI only works on Nvidia.
    Ahhh... The old "lock out the competition" trick, eh?

  13. #73
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    Basically. Now that ATI has good graphics cards again though, and Intel has the best chipsets, it's backfiring on Nvidia.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    According to Intel's Desktop Processor Comparison Chart, the Q9650 and the E8600 work on P45 chipsets, while the Q9550 does not. Both are LGA775 sockets.

    <snip>

    If someone can confirm (via a link to a page on Intel's website) that the Q9550 is expressly certified by Intel for the P45 chipset, I'll buy that $316 puppy instead of the $200 more expensive Q9650.
    I'm wondering if that chart simply isn't up to date. I found a chipset comparison chart that indicates the P45 chipset supports the Core 2 Quad family of CPUs. I haven't been able to find anything online to indicate compatibility issues and I've run across posts from overclockers using that CPU/chipset combination.

    But no, I haven't found anything officially certifying that particular CPU with that chipset. I'd think it exceedingly strange if they don't though. The Q9550 and Q9650 are both Yorkfield's aren't they?

    ETA: Went back to their site and found the Intel® Processors and Boards Compatibility Tool, selected "Find boards that will work with my processor", and got these results for the Q9550. They list one of their own P45 boards as being compatible.
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  15. #75
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    The chart isn't up to date - P45's support all modern LGA775 CPUs. The 9450, 9550, and 9650, as well as the 9770 are all the same exact die, but simply differently binned and clocked. (the 9300 and 9400 are the same die as well, but with a defect in part of the L3 cache, which simply caused Intel to disable half of the cache).

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    Copy both of you - thanks!

    Back to motherboards, then (this is what we call the "iterative design process...). Turns out I've been using an Abit board for the last six years. No real complaints, so I surfed Abit's site to see what's out there and came up with the following possibilities:

    Abit IP35 Pro:
    LGA 775
    Intel® P35
    FSB 1333
    Dual DDR2 1066
    PCI-E X16
    SATA 3G RAID
    eSATA 3G
    Gigabit LAN
    IEEE1394
    7.1 CH HD Audio
    RoHS Compliancy
    SilentOTES™
    µGuru™ Tech

    The didn't have any P45 boards, yet!

    It's either that, or the MSI P45 Platinum.

  17. #77
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    I'm also have an Abit board in my current PC but IIRC, some of the scuttlebutt I found online indicate that they've been in a quality slump of late so I steered clear of their boards from the git-go. For P45 boards, my impression is that Asus and DFI are widely well regarded. Don't quote me, though.
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  18. #78
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    Asus is quite nice - I'm using one of their X48 boards right now. I don't have any experience with DFI, but I've heard good things.

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    I did just order one part by mail for my new computer. As it happens, the
    seller is in Minnesota so I'm paying 6.5% sales tax, but they're paying for
    shipping, which would likely be more than sales tax if I had to pay for it.

    Most of my purchase will be at local stores, dependant on availability.
    A small shop within walking distance has the case I want -- hopefully
    still a new one in the box in stock when I get around to buying it -- that
    nobody else carries.

    Micro Center in the past had that case in stock locally, but it wasn't
    mentioned on their website. When I asked about it and about ASUS
    motherboards on the phone the other day, the guy said if it isn't on the
    website, they don't have it. So they don't have any ASUS P45 boards,
    yet. He suggested I look at Gigabyte boards as an alternative.

    Is the Samsung 2280 HD HDTV/monitor available anywhere? Or has it
    been replaced? I'm now considering the Samsung LN22A650, which costs
    about $50 more.

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis

  20. #80
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    The LN22A650 looks to be a 22", 720p LCD HDTV. For less price, I have a 24" 1920x1200x32bit LCD monitor. It has VGA (15-pin), component video, and HDMI (which is what I'm using, as my video card has HDMI out).

    It even has PIP (picture in picture)!

    My point is that if you don't need the TV tuner (most cable boxes do that chore for you) you're probably both money and resolution ahead by purchasing a monitor with HDMI and/or component video input.

    And, being single, I'm still in the process of consolidating my home theater stuff with my home computer stuff.

  21. #81
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    I'll be living with my current monitor for a while but here's the one I'm drooling over: Eizo ColorEdge CG222W

    Anyone got $1300 they want to drop in my lap?
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  22. #82
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    LOL! I like their low Delta-E variation (whatever that is... emissivity?).

    But for half the price you can get one like mine - greater real estate, higher res, better contrast ratio - and it swivels 90 deg. For a third the price you can get one that doesn't swivel.

    For photography, though, contrast ratio doesn't cure LCD's ills when it comes to black level. An LCD's black level just isn't black. A high contrast ratio (and bright, bright whites) drown it out, but for professional artwork, you'll want to get either a plasma display, or a 21-inch true-flat CRT. I like the real estate of my widescreen LCD, but my properly-tuned Samsung 21" CRT put it to shame with respect to dead-on accurate colors, white level, and black level.

    I think you'd be better off buying a less expensive monitor with greater real estate, resolution, darker black level, and greater contrast, then spending only a fraction of what you saved on some color calibration hardware/software, such as ColorVision's Spyder2PRO.

    I've heard bad things about the 3, though, so stick with the 2 if you're decide to go that route.

    Here's an interesting site on Amazon, where the author has put together a well-balanced system recommendation.

  23. #83
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    The Dell Ultrasharp 2408WFP is a good choice if you want high color gamut and good color accuracy, along with a good viewing angle.

  24. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
    For photography, though, contrast ratio doesn't cure LCD's ills when it comes to black level. An LCD's black level just isn't black. A high contrast ratio (and bright, bright whites) drown it out, but for professional artwork, you'll want to get either a plasma display, or a 21-inch true-flat CRT. I like the real estate of my widescreen LCD, but my properly-tuned Samsung 21" CRT put it to shame with respect to dead-on accurate colors, white level, and black level.
    Black level isn't nearly as important to me as is sRGB colorspace and greyscale rendition. CRTs are quite good for that but good ones are getting harder to find and doggonit, I just don't want a big box on the desk again. For color management, I want to upgrade to the i1Display 2 or perhaps the colormunki, should I do more printing. I'm not much interested in the Spyder products.

    Here's an interesting site on Amazon, where the author has put together a well-balanced system recommendation.
    Meh...I'm not too impressed with that. Well, maybe I would be impressed is he got that 200-pin SODIMM to work in a 240-pin SDRAM socket.
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  25. #85
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    Definitely not the way to go, and the recommendation of notebook RAM knocks down the credibility a notch or two.

  26. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjl View Post
    The Dell Ultrasharp 2408WFP is a good choice if you want high color gamut and good color accuracy, along with a good viewing angle.
    I haven't got my hands on one yet, but Maximum PC is having a love fest with the Gateway XHD3000, they even used it with Dream Machine '08.
    http://www.maximumpc.com/article/gateway_xhd3000

  27. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjl View Post
    The Dell Ultrasharp 2408WFP is a good choice if you want high color
    gamut and good color accuracy, along with a good viewing angle.
    Wow! The same things about that monitor's description impress me
    as impressed the reviewers. Now I'm sold on it, having read that
    Dell will replace the monitor in case of a bad pixel in the first three
    years. (The Dell website says "bright" pixel, so the reviewer might
    have got the info slightly wrong.)

    Problem is, though, the Samsung monitors have HDTV built in, which
    seems to me the best, most convenient place to locate the receiver.
    If it isn't in the monitor, it will have to go in the computer case, which
    adds to the heat and the load on the power supply, and I know zero
    about TV receivers for computers. And of course, it's added cost.

    Curiously, on the Dell website, the one bad comment I read about
    the 2408WFP was that the reviewer's monitor developed a vertical
    blue line, which is exactly what happened on the circa-1997 Dell
    laptop I'm using right now. (Though I've plugged it into a Dell CRT
    from the same era and am generally not using the LCD. The CRT
    has a larger and much better picture.)

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis

  28. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetersCreek View Post
    Black level isn't nearly as important to me as is sRGB colorspace and greyscale rendition.
    Varying the colorspace is fairly easy with parameterization software. Physically cranking out true black from an LCD is impossible.

    For color management, I want to upgrade to the i1Display 2 or perhaps the colormunki, should I do more printing. I'm not much interested in the Spyder products.
    I've heard some bad things about colormunki (like "all or nothing" adjustments where the end result isn't any more accurate than the beginning - just different).

    BTW, you can get the Xrite Eye-One Display 2 from Amazon for $205. Save you $45. There's something to be said for B&H, though - I've never been disappointed with them.

    I still haven't seen any of these lower offerings do what's really required - adjusting monitors on the fly to match actual ambient lighting, which can change merely by wearing a different color shirt.



    Meh...I'm not too impressed with that. Well, maybe I would be impressed is he got that 200-pin SODIMM to work in a 240-pin SDRAM socket. [/QUOTE]

  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjl View Post
    The Dell Ultrasharp 2408WFP is a good choice if you want high color gamut and good color accuracy, along with a good viewing angle.
    I looked at the Dell site and the CNET review and it does look like a nice general use monitor...but there's not really enough information to say that it's a good graphics monitor. How easy is it to calibrate? One of my resources poses the problem this way, "Just for fun, call the Dell sales line and ask about profiling your monitor? Prepare for 45 minutes of frustration."

    Yep, the Eizo is pricey but when I'm ready to replace my current monitor, I want a professional-grade photo editing tool. Otherwise, the Dell and many others would look quite nice.
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  30. #90
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    If you buy a calibrator, you can get darn good results with relatively little effort. The color profile is actually controlled by the graphics card in that case, not the monitor. If you really have a need for good color, you should have a calibrator anyways. Oh, and the Gateway looks nice, but I think I'd take the Dell Ultrasharp 3008 over it if I had the kind of money to blow on a 30".

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