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Thread: Cosmicfingerprints

  1. #1
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    Cosmicfingerprints

    I don't know if http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/ has been discussed here but I accidentally ran across it and figured it should get some kind of a review by this forum. I haven't had time to look it over in detail yet, but I think the Atheists Riddle page has potential for stirring the pot a little here.

    Luckmeister
    "There are powers in this universe beyond anything you know. There is much you have to learn. Go to your homes. Go and give thought to the mysteries of the universe. I will leave you now, in peace." --Galaxy Being

  2. #2
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    On this page (one of the links on the main site) is this statement
    Patterns occur naturally - no help required from a 'designer'. Many patterns occur in nature without the help of a designer snowflakes, tornados, hurricanes, sand dunes, stalactites, rivers and ocean waves. These patterns are the natural result of what scientists categorize as chaos and fractals. These things are well-understood and we experience them every day.
    That statement is not true. Snowflakes are not fractal patterns, at least at the highest level (they might be at the atomic level as far as their surfaces) - snowflakes are crystals and natural crystals do not follow fractal patterns in their crystal structures.

    Codes, however, do not occur without a designer. Examples of symbolic codes include music, blueprints, languages like English and Chinese, computer programs, and yes, DNA. The essential distinction is the difference between a pattern and a code. Chaos can produce patterns, but it has never been shown to produce codes or symbols.
    I am not sure that DNA is a code in that sense. I am also note sure exactly how he is defining codes versus patterns. In my mind, a code is sort of a template, an instruction for creating something else. A pattern is just a simple rule for repeating a design. But I am not convinced that codes can not occur without a design and I don't see that he has offered proof of this.

    I also don't understand his statement "chaos can produce patterns". Non-chaotic systems can have patterns too.
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  3. #3
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    anyway how could anyone in all the world prove that you can't have a pattern or code without a god, if you can't prove that there is or isn't a god in the first place?
    ................................

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift
    Snowflakes are not fractal patterns, at least at the highest level (they might be at the atomic level as far as their surfaces) - snowflakes are crystals and natural crystals do not follow fractal patterns in their crystal structures.
    So, is it your idea that a regularly ordered crystal structure cannot be described as a fractal pattern -- even a degenerate, simple fractal pattern? Extreme regularity is still self-similar. (Edit: I guess I should say I use fractal in the more common sense, not the more restrictive, mathematical one.)
    0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...
    Skepticism enables us to distinguish fancy from fact, to test our speculations. --Carl Sagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift
    I am not sure that DNA is a code in that sense. I am also note sure exactly how he is defining codes versus patterns. In my mind, a code is sort of a template, an instruction for creating something else. A pattern is just a simple rule for repeating a design. But I am not convinced that codes can not occur without a design and I don't see that he has offered proof of this.
    From what I can see, Marshall is simply using that tired hypothesis that the complexity we see in today's world could not exist without ID; ignoring the many many intermediate steps, i.e., trial and error of nature, that led to that complexity.

    Luckmeister
    "There are powers in this universe beyond anything you know. There is much you have to learn. Go to your homes. Go and give thought to the mysteries of the universe. I will leave you now, in peace." --Galaxy Being

  6. #6
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    is he one of these guys that think the bible should be interpreted literally and then try to get you to believe that although the Universe is 15billion years old, it was "designed".

    hope his car breaks down.
    ................................

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01101001
    Originally Posted by Swift
    Snowflakes are not fractal patterns, at least at the highest level (they might be at the atomic level as far as their surfaces) - snowflakes are crystals and natural crystals do not follow fractal patterns in their crystal structures.
    So, is it your idea that a regularly ordered crystal structure cannot be described as a fractal pattern -- even a degenerate, simple fractal pattern? Extreme regularity is still self-similar. (Edit: I guess I should say I use fractal in the more common sense, not the more restrictive, mathematical one.)
    Yes, that is exactly my idea. This fellow is trying to use science (information theory) to prove his proposition and if he uses the term fractal, I assume he means in the scientific sense. Crystals do not have fractional dimensions and are not infinitely complex (wikipedia article).
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

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