Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Eternal Egypt

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,303

    Cool Eternal Egypt

    We used to have a few posters in the forum who were interested in ancient Egypt. I don't know if they're still lurking, but here's a nice website, Eternal Egypt.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    2,527
    I am fascinated by it, though I have never mentioned it here. Thanks. Ancient archaeology in general actually.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,846
    I am also facinated by it (Ancient Civilizations in general, but my favorite is Ancient Egyptian civilizations). It is a Great and interesting site. I also know of another site where there is alot of info and where you can explore the pyramids as well.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pyramid/



    Titana.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,428
    I am also a big fan of Ancient Egypt. I personally prefer the Incan civilization and ruins a bit more, I would say they are even more impressive than the Egyptians, but Egypt is a close second.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,846
    I have never really read to much about the Incan civilization, but I do recall reading a little about it once. I ran into it while reading about the famous Nazca Lines of Peru...



    Titana.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,428
    The Nazca lines were made by a civilization that far predated the Incas called, appropriately, the Nazca civilization. Little is known about it. The Incas, on the other hand, were crushed by the Spanish in relatively modern times.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    2,527
    The Egyptians in the old world and the Maya in the new world both made pyramids, and the woos like to point that out as some sort of Atlantean connection, but if one actually looks at them, they bear no resemblance beyond piles of rock that come to a point. One wonders what the new world would have developed had the wheel occured to them.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,846
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlackCat
    The Nazca lines were made by a civilization that far predated the Incas called, appropriately, the Nazca civilization. Little is known about it. The Incas, on the other hand, were crushed by the Spanish in relatively modern times.

    Yes, true. I am aware that the Nazca lines were made by the Nazca civilization. What I was trying to say is that I ran into an article about the Inca civilization while reading about the Nazca lines...


    http://www.crystalinks.com/nazca.html


    Titana..

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by Enzp
    The Egyptians in the old world and the Maya in the new world both made pyramids, and the woos like to point that out as some sort of Atlantean connection, but if one actually looks at them, they bear no resemblance beyond piles of rock that come to a point.
    There are several other problems. First, the Aztec and Mayan pyramids were temples. The Egyptian pyramids were tombs. Second, although I am less clear on Aztec and Mayan history the Egyptain pyramids did not start out at their present, best-known state. They started out with simple tombs, then made tombs buried under a large square of bricks, then made tombs that were a square of bricks with progressively progressively smaller squares of bricks on top (step pyramids), then they added sloping blocks to the outside of the steps to make the pyramids have flat sides. If they truly came from aliens or an earlier civilization you would expect the pyramids to appear in their complete state with no sign of progression. Instead, we see all the steps of the evolution of the pyramid from simple tombs all the way to the Great Pyramid. There were also mistakes, like the "bent" pyramid where they ran out of material and thus had to reduce the slope of the sides part-way through.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enzp
    One wonders what the new world would have developed had the wheel occured to them.
    Some american cultures actually did develop wheels (toys have been found with wheels on them), the environment that they lived in simply made the wheel useless to them.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    2,527
    Yes, that was the point, they are not alike. Also many Maya pyramids are stacked shells. A small temple is built, then a larger one is built over the earlier one and so on. The angles are different, the purposes are different, th econstructions are different. All they share is that they are large piles of rocks.

    I don't want to hijack the thread, but while they did make wheel shaped things, it never occured to them to use them in transport. Certainly the wheel would have made many things they did more efficient. COnstruction of their cities for example. Transport of goods. Movement of war supplies. In the middle east where we came from, they didn't "need" the wheel either. But once it came along, hoo boy.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,428
    No, they made toys with wheels so they could be rolled around. Generations of intelligent humans would build little toy animals that could be rolled around and not realize the same principles could be scaled up to human-sized vehicles. They would have to be idiots not to figure that out, something their accomplishments prove they were not. The middle east is mostly desert and plains, wheels are no where near as effective in thick jungle or heavy mountains. Besides just living in such regions, many cities were actually built in jungle or mountain regions. They also require animals that can effectively pull heavy loads. I am not sure llamas are built for that kind of work, and there are no other domestic pack animals indigenous to the Americas (cattle, donkeys, and horses were introduced by Europeans). Certainly not all civilizations in the Americas developed wheels, but it is known that some did. And I do not know for certain that the wheel was never used in large-scale activities, either. I know it existed, I know they understood how they worked, but I am not 100% sure they were only used for toys (or religious figures, it is not clear whether they were actually for children). There may have been more practical applications as well that I am not aware of or that simply have not be proven to exist.

    BTW, It is also a myth that the Americas did not have alcohol, many civilizations in the Americas did not but the Andean civilizations had been drinking corn alcohol for centuries by the time the Spanish arrived, and in fact still drink it to this day.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,846
    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Cat
    There are several other problems. First, the Aztec and Mayan pyramids were temples. The Egyptian pyramids were tombs. Second, although I am less clear on Aztec and Mayan history the Egyptian pyramids did not start out at their present, best-known state. They started out with simple tombs, then made tombs buried under a large square of bricks, then made tombs that were a square of bricks with progressively progressively smaller squares of bricks on top (step pyramids), then they added sloping blocks to the outside of the steps to make the pyramids have flat sides. If they truly came from aliens or an earlier civilization you would expect the pyramids to appear in their complete state with no sign of progression. Instead, we see all the steps of the evolution of the pyramid from simple tombs all the way to the Great Pyramid. There were also mistakes, like the "bent" pyramid where they ran out of material and thus had to reduce the slope of the sides part-way through.
    Yes, you are correct the Egyptian pyramids went through many changes before they took on the shape that they actually have.



    Quote Originally Posted by Enzp
    The Egyptians in the old world and the Maya in the new world both made pyramids, and the woos like to point that out as some sort of Atlantean connection, but if one actually looks at them, they bear no resemblance beyond piles of rock that come to a point. One wonders what the new world would have developed had the wheel occured to them.

    Not only do they not bare no resemblance, but as Black Cat mentioned they were also used for different purposes. Most of the Mayan pyramids are temples to their Gods not burial tombs as the Egyptian pyramids.The Egyptian pyramids were used as tombs to house and protect the body of a Pharaoh. The Egyptian pyramids are structures with a square base and four sloping triangular sides that meet at a point as you mentioned, but the Mayan pyramids look like one large stairway toward the sky and all of them have a temple built at the top. The Mayan pyramids were similar to the Aztec pyramids , the only difference is that the Aztecs often built two or more temples at the top while the Mayans only had one.



    Another very interesting and new article I read the other day was this one:


    A University of Memphis-led team found the previously unknown tomb complete with sarcophagi and five mummies.

    The archaeologists have not yet been able to identify them.

    But Egypt's chief archaeologist Zahi Hawass says they "might be royals or nobles" moved from "original graves to protect them from grave robbers".

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4700032.stm

    It is about the discovery of an intact ancient tomb that was found by archaeologists in the Valley of the Kings.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,303

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlackCat
    There are several other problems. First, the Aztec and Mayan pyramids were temples. The Egyptian pyramids were tombs.
    Are you sure?

    Whilst it is common to emphasize the mortuary character of [Egyptian] pyramids and to see them primarily as tombs with temples ancillary to them, the way in which they were in fact organized and referred to suggests that the emphasis should be reversed, and they be regarded first and foremost as temples for the royal statues with a royal tomb attached to each, which, acting as a huge reliquary, gave enormous authority to what was, in essence, an ancestor cult……

    The Wrong Question (or: The Myth of the Mystery of the Missing Messages), by John Wall

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,428
    It is kind of hard to have a temple that you cannot go into. The pyramids were sealed off completely, there was no way to enter except fby smashing through the blocks that kept is sealed off. The actual space inside is also extremely limited. Most of the pyramid is solid rock, the actual spaces inside are quite small and very far from the outside, so there would not be much room for religious services inside and no way for the people outside to get any indication of the religious events (although it could be said that they don't want people seeing the inside for religious reasons, it defeats the purpose of a religious event to keep the people completely excluded). Also, it is very difficult to get into the chambers even when open, modern-day people had to add wooden stairs just so it was possible to climb the steep ramp leading to the main chamber. It is a completely illogical design for a temple. What is more there are no sorts of inscriptions or drawing inside the pyramids, all other Egyptian temples have paintings, carvings, and/or inscriptions of the various Gods and Goddesses of Egyptain mythology and various events and components from their myths. If the pyramids themselves were temples it would extremely hard to worship in them and they lack basic characteristics found in all other Egyptain temples.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,303

    Thumbs up

    More precisely, the point of the article I quoted is that the pyramids were part of a mortuary complex. Presumably, worship of the Pharaoh took place in the temples adjacent to the pyramid itself. So, I think you're right in saying the pyramids were not temples, after all, but they were still part of a complex of buildings devoted to religious cult. Also, tombs have been found in some Mayan pyramids.
    I'm not claiming that one of those cultures inherited pyramids from the other, mind you.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by Disinfo Agent
    So, I think you're right in saying the pyramids were not temples, after all, but they were still part of a complex of buildings devoted to religious cult.
    That would be logical, Pharohs were considered Gods, specifically descendants of the king of the gods Horus (the one with the falcon head).

    Quote Originally Posted by Disinfo Agent
    Also, tombs have been found in some Mayan pyramids.
    I am afraid my knowledge of Mesoamerican cultures is rather limited compared to that of Egyptain and South American cultures.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,303

    Arrow

    There's the tomb of king Pakal, in Palenque, for example.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,846
    Quote Originally Posted by Disinfo Agent
    More precisely, the point of the article I quoted is that the pyramids were part of a mortuary complex. Presumably, worship of the Pharaoh took place in the temples adjacent to the pyramid itself. So, I think you're right in saying the pyramids were not temples, after all, but they were still part of a complex of buildings devoted to religious cult. Also, tombs have been found in some Mayan pyramids.
    I'm not claiming that one of those cultures inherited pyramids from the other, mind you.

    Well yes, the worship of the Pharaoh took place in temples adjacent to the pyramid itself.


    If I remember right there was the "Valley Temple" where the King would be mummified then there was the "Mortuary Temple" which was built against the side of the pyramid and was the place where priest made offerings to the Kings spirit every day for eternity.


    Quote Originally Posted by Disinfo Agent
    There's the tomb of king Pakal, in Palenque, for example.

    I would have to say that there has been great debate about whether the Mayan pyramids were used as tombs or not. And the debate started precisely in 1952 when the discovery of King Pakal's tomb was made. I am not very sure of just how many tombs have been found in ancient Mayan constructions to this day, but I can assure there has not been many (that I know of anyway).

    Do to such little findings is what brings most people to think that they were not built exactly for that purpose . However, the Egyptian pyramids are known to be built exclusively as monuments to house the tombs of the Pharaohs.



    Titana

Similar Threads

  1. Archeological News From Egypt
    By KaiYeves in forum Science and Technology
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 2008-Feb-14, 11:15 PM
  2. The Technology Of Egypt
    By imported_Ziggy in forum Space/Astronomy Questions and Answers
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 2004-May-25, 02:10 AM
  3. The Technology Of Egypt
    By imported_Ziggy in forum Astronomy
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 1970-Jan-01, 12:00 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •