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Thread: The Americas Cup 2021

  1. #1
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    The Americas Cup 2021

    Hey, is anyone watching the build up to the race? The technology now of these hydrofoil boats, hydraulic sail shape modifiers, 40 mph up wind, all that stuff. Auckland. Fascinating technology.
    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
    Originally Posted by Ken G

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    As a confirmed Luddite, I'd rather see displacement hulls and sail changes. Made of wood and linen!
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    As a confirmed Luddite, I'd rather see displacement hulls and sail changes. Made of wood and linen!
    For leisure sailing I am with you but these foil boats are surely showing the future of wind powered boats. More than 50 knots! The combination of hydrofoil control and what will in the future be solid wings, I feel this shows how racing drives the progress of everyday technology. They lift up at about 20 knots and then can stay up on hydrofoils at 10.
    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
    Originally Posted by Ken G

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    Thank you for starting the thread so I don’t have to look like an annoying fangirl talking about my obsession when nobody asked!

    I’ve been watching via VPN every day since the World Series event in December. It’s one of the highlights of a dull winter in lockdown and I admit I get very emotional logging in and seeing the live feed of Auckland’s beautiful volcanic scenery with all of the spectators swimming at the beaches, watching from their own sailboats, and sitting on the waterfront with no masks or gloves, happy and relaxed. It feels like a brief escape to a fantasy world for two or three hours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    As a confirmed Luddite, I'd rather see displacement hulls and sail changes. Made of wood and linen!
    Phhhff, okay, grandpa...

    Nah, I like displacement boats, too— all the sailing I’ve done has been in them— and I like seeing that the old J-Class and 12-Metre competitors are kept in good condition and still sail and race. But in the 1930s, Sopwith and Vanderbilt’s Endeavour and Ranger were every bit as high-tech and radical as the AC-75s are to us today (they used aircraft aluminum, and tank and wind-tunnel tests for their design!), and you can look at old news stories and find people complaining they were useless, overly-fragile technotoys designed just to race and not good for anything else. (The famous schooner races that the Bluenose won in the 1920s and 30s were actually organized by American and Canadian fishermen who thought the America’s Cup had gone too far and real sailors could only relate to a race between working fishing boats.)

    I think I liked the catamarans better aesthetically, but the AC-75s are growing on me and it really is incredible to see them flying along on just one hydrofoil at high-speed through these smooth turns. Ten years ago, when the AC-45 catamarans were first introduced, people were shocked they could do 30 knots and in this series, the Americans got up to 53 briefly!

    As a Luna Rossa fan, I was excited by yesterday’s racing, and they seem to have finally been the ones to scratch the seemingly-invincible Team UK. Jimmy Spithill and Ben Ainslie are both top-level, and this is going to be a fascinating challenger final between them. And, of course, Team New Zealand are waiting to take on whoever emerges victorious...
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    Indeed! The Kiwis have pioneered facing hydrofoil boats, but I agree the Luna Rosa is a thing of beauty and the Italians are making it look easy to manoeuvre those things.
    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
    Originally Posted by Ken G

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    Quote Originally Posted by profloater View Post
    Indeed! The Kiwis have pioneered facing hydrofoil boats, but I agree the Luna Rosa is a thing of beauty and the Italians are making it look easy to manoeuvre those things.
    Luna Rossa looks nice in black, but I can’t get over the thought of how pretty it would be if the hull was silver, like their prototype...
    The greatest journey of all time, for all to see
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    Through all space and time, the achievement of mankind
    As we sail the sea of discovery, on heroes’ wings we fly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KaiYeves View Post
    Luna Rossa looks nice in black, but I can’t get over the thought of how pretty it would be if the hull was silver, like their prototype...
    It needs to be red, otherwise the name doesn't work.

    Grant Hutchison

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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    It needs to be red, otherwise the name doesn't work.

    Grant Hutchison
    The stripes on both designs are red. Prada red.
    The greatest journey of all time, for all to see
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaiYeves View Post
    The stripes on both designs are red. Prada red.
    Yeah. Interesting that the Prada linea rossa sports logo isn't the same "Prada red" they've popularized with their bags. It actually seems to be not unadjacent to the red of the Italian flag, flame scarlet.

    Grant Hutchison

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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    Yeah. Interesting that the Prada linea rossa sports logo isn't the same "Prada red" they've popularized with their bags. It actually seems to be not unadjacent to the red of the Italian flag, flame scarlet.

    Grant Hutchison
    And the red stripe on their helmets is orange.
    What is red is the "A" in GRENADIER on Ineos. Which is almost invisible, leaving us with GREN DIER.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    And the red stripe on their helmets is orange.
    What is red is the "A" in GRENADIER on Ineos. Which is almost invisible, leaving us with GREN DIER.
    And every helmet Dean Barker has worn in the AC across three teams and nations (New Zealand, Japan, USA) has been white with a red stripe, although I don’t know if that was his choice!
    The greatest journey of all time, for all to see
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    Italy is looking very strong!
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

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    There has always been a non-intuitive element to being able to sail faster than the windspeed and now we can see how close we are to sailing directly into the wind. To actually do that will require a new class of boats using wind driven rotators, like propellers or Flotner rotors. The use of hydrofoils has released us from the Froude limit of displacement boats. The development of control tabs on the hydrofoil is exactly like the development of aircraft wings and also releases from the problems of Seastate, at least to a first order where the hydrofoils can be deeper than the wave height. So here I think we see a class of boats that although developed specifically for racing, show us the way ahead in our long history of our relationship with the seas and oceans.
    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
    Originally Posted by Ken G

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    Because it is a racing formula, the rules are tight, but still the design variations are quite large thisyear. The hydrofoil wings for exammple vary between boats, using the envelope and mass rules. The rudder elevators fascinate me. The tradeoff between control and speed with water speeds from 10 to 50 knots, the control to keep the boats flying level at high speed.

    I like to predict the engineering trends outside the rules and here the use of air skin bubbles to replace moving surfaces seems interesting. Large areas bring skin and profile drag which could be drastically reduced with air boundaries. Then controlled to give positive and negative lift at the rudder as required.

    In the Americas cup the winner gets to set the rules. Very interesting time in boat racing in my opinion.
    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
    Originally Posted by Ken G

  15. #15
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    It is possible to use human power to get onto foils and there is an MIT record. I was involved in human powered races and you need to generate about one horse power, about 750 Watts, to get up on a foil. Racing cyclists can do that for a few seconds so that record is for 100m dash and without a hull to start and finish! The 18 knot record is not such a big factor over a racing skiff speed, and human powered catamarans shoot along with four sets of pedals and a prop., eerily silent if you get a chance to see them in action. Of course there are single hydrofoil sail boats now, “moths “and “wasps, “ but I have never tried them and I guess never will .
    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
    Originally Posted by Ken G

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    Good performance by Luna Rossa today, hopefully after this lockdown everyone will be safe and they’ll be able to resume racing later this week.
    The greatest journey of all time, for all to see
    Every mission makes our dreams reality
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    Through all space and time, the achievement of mankind
    As we sail the sea of discovery, on heroes’ wings we fly!

  17. #17
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    I will avoid giving spoiler results in case anyone has to watch after the events!
    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
    Originally Posted by Ken G

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    Gotta remember to watch Tuesday evening, my time. But I'd still prefer the more traditional boats.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    Gotta remember to watch Tuesday evening, my time. But I'd still prefer the more traditional boats.
    It’s been delayed because they had a coronavirus scare in Auckland, probably Wednesday or Thursday US time instead.
    The greatest journey of all time, for all to see
    Every mission makes our dreams reality
    And our destiny begins with you and me
    Through all space and time, the achievement of mankind
    As we sail the sea of discovery, on heroes’ wings we fly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by profloater View Post
    Of course there are single hydrofoil sail boats now, “moths “and “wasps, “ but I have never tried them and I guess never will .
    Don't forget single foil surfboards.



    I have been watching many of the races on cable and I must say that the digital overlays give you a much better comprehension of the closeness/tactics of the racing than the raw footage does by itself.

  21. #21
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    What interests me is the range of forces on variable geometry. If you set a target of lifting a few tons per board at say 5 knots and then sailing at fifty knots, your lift and drag forces go up a hundred times! Maybe you run fully cavitated but that is another problem. The hydraulic control has to work hard to stay level. There is so much scope for development in both racing and general sailing.
    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
    Originally Posted by Ken G

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    They’re racing again on Saturday (Friday US time), without spectators. Hopefully the fans are all prudent and watch from home so that the quarantine succeeds and the rest of the AC can go on like normal.
    The greatest journey of all time, for all to see
    Every mission makes our dreams reality
    And our destiny begins with you and me
    Through all space and time, the achievement of mankind
    As we sail the sea of discovery, on heroes’ wings we fly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KaiYeves View Post
    They’re racing again on Saturday (Friday US time), without spectators. Hopefully the fans are all prudent and watch from home so that the quarantine succeeds and the rest of the AC can go on like normal.
    The appeal of being a spectator there somewhat escapes me. It's not as if they can actually see the race, they're watching on TV just like me!

    Now I'll go see if I can record it. The channel guide for the cable might be a bit messed up.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    The appeal of being a spectator there somewhat escapes me. It's not as if they can actually see the race, they're watching on TV just like me!

    Now I'll go see if I can record it. The channel guide for the cable might be a bit messed up.
    I think on the closer courses inside the harbor, they can watch in person. Also, having been to the America’s Cup World Series New York, SailGP New York, and the Volvo Ocean Race Newport, race villages at sailing events are a great experience (in non-lockdown times)— you watch both in-person and on-screen, there’s exhibits about all of the technology of the boats, they usually have booths for local marine conservation organizations, you can get autographs from the athletes, and you get to geek out with other people who actually care about these things and remember you aren’t the only fan out there— it’s like Comic-Con for boat racing! (Especially if you view the people wearing team shirts and jackets as “cosplaying”!)
    The greatest journey of all time, for all to see
    Every mission makes our dreams reality
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    And Luna Rossa of Italy win the Prada Cup! The America’s Cup match with be a rematch between helmsmen Jimmy Spithill and Peter Burling, who also faced each other last time!

    (I just hope the LR guys get tested tomorrow, they were being pretty sloppy with their masks at the celebration and they can’t race in the AC match if they’re in the hospital.)
    The greatest journey of all time, for all to see
    Every mission makes our dreams reality
    And our destiny begins with you and me
    Through all space and time, the achievement of mankind
    As we sail the sea of discovery, on heroes’ wings we fly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KaiYeves View Post
    And Luna Rossa of Italy win the Prada Cup! The America’s Cup match with be a rematch between helmsmen Jimmy Spithill and Peter Burling, who also faced each other last time!

    (I just hope the LR guys get tested tomorrow, they were being pretty sloppy with their masks at the celebration and they can’t race in the AC match if they’re in the hospital.)
    I was hoping for a few more races!
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

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    Yes well done Luna Rossa, a well deserved win. We just have to wait till the final races start. It is so much more a spectator sport now, I hope it gains popularity.
    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
    Originally Posted by Ken G

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    After being delayed by a Covid lockdown, the Cup finals will begin on Wednesday, March 10. That'll be Tuesday March 9 here in the USA.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  29. #29
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    Ii think I have to watch after the event Wednesday, any live feed would be middle of the night here, if indeed there is a live feed! I hope it is close racing, they have shown how aggressive tacking is just like dinghy racing but so much faster.
    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
    Originally Posted by Ken G

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    It’s the day before the racing starts, so we have the opening press conference here (47 minutes), and preliminary interviews with the skippers here (6 minutes).

    When they’re standing next to each other, Max Sirena looks short, but having met Peter Burling, it’s just that Burling is quite tall. 92C12134-9CC7-41CD-B10A-2081D87BC718.jpeg
    Last edited by KaiYeves; 2021-Mar-09 at 03:45 AM.
    The greatest journey of all time, for all to see
    Every mission makes our dreams reality
    And our destiny begins with you and me
    Through all space and time, the achievement of mankind
    As we sail the sea of discovery, on heroes’ wings we fly!

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