Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Roscosmos Chief claims Venus is a 'Russian Planet'

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    582

    Roscosmos Chief claims Venus is a 'Russian Planet'

    Hi.

    Hoping to avoid getting too political, but if there was any doubt, it seems great power competition doesn't stop at the exosphere.

    On Tuesday, Russia’s space chief said Venus is a “Russian planet” while announcing a new series of Russian unmanned spacecraft missions to visit the second planet from the sun.

    Speaking at the 2020 HeliRussia exhibition, Dmitry Rogozin, head of the Russian space corporation Roscosmos, downplayed the recent research on phoshine , claiming that a series of Soviet probes to Venus during the Cold War determined that the planet’s environment was far too harsh to support life.

    “Our country was the first and only one to successfully land on Venus,” Rogozin said. “The [Russian] spacecraft gathered information about the planet — it is like hell over there.”

    Commenting on the exclusively Russian expeditions to Venus, Rogozin told reporters: “Resuming Venus exploration is on our agenda. Firstly, we have the Venera-D project in cooperation with the Americans. We are also considering our own mission to Venus. We think that Venus is a Russian planet, so we shouldn’t lag behind.”

    I'm assuming this to be empty nationalistic hyperbole, as the Outer Space Treaty of 1967 prevents countries from staking claims on a celestial body. I believe there was a time when the 'Red Planet' was seen to be the planet of destiny for Russia, but that ship seems to have sailed.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Depew, NY
    Posts
    12,207
    I guess the Russians do nice science on Venus. They gotta be proud of that. Venus is one giant science experiment gone very wrong, which is a scientist's playground. Every bit of data from Venus is really very cool due to the hostile environment.

    The rest of it seems to be a very low pressure boast for a high pressure planet.
    Solfe

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,268
    Quote Originally Posted by Solfe View Post
    I guess the Russians do nice science on Venus. They gotta be proud of that. Venus is one giant science experiment gone very wrong, which is a scientist's playground. Every bit of data from Venus is really very cool due to the hostile environment.

    The rest of it seems to be a very low pressure boast for a high pressure planet.
    Yes, the Soviet Union's Venera and Vega programs did a lot to lay the foundations for what's happening today... I think if life is found on Venus, it will be the credit of scientists and space agency people in many countries, whether the actual discovery is made by NASA or ESA or Roskosmos or someone else.
    Last edited by Colin Robinson; 2020-Sep-19 at 05:17 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    16,583
    It sounds like a bit of political puffery better ignored, although the I wish them success with the new Venus probes.
    The greatest journey of all time, for all to see
    Every mission makes our dreams reality
    And our destiny begins with you and me
    Through all space and time, the achievement of mankind
    As we sail the sea of discovery, on heroes’ wings we fly!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    The Great NorthWet
    Posts
    15,950
    Kind of conceding Mars to the US there, isn't he? And Jupiter, and Saturn, and Pluto!

    He can have Venus!
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    698
    Ignoring the political side entirely and just using the empiric method I believe that there is unfortunately no longer any reason to trust anything Roscosmos says. They are claiming many things that there are no evidence for or even any plausibility, a partial selection
    * They are building a super heavy launcher
    * They can land on Mars in 8-10 years
    * They are developing a fully reusable rocket (100 uses) and scoffs at Falcon 9 since it is only semi-reusable
    * They have a methane oxygen rocket in development
    * They say NASA is going to use updated Soyuz capsules to return to the moon
    * etc

    Looking at is actually happening
    * Existing launchers are losing market share and has serious problem with QA. Apparently workers are drilling extra holes in capsules, bashing boosters into things and using hammers to be able to fit inertial guidance sensors upside down.
    * The next generation Angara rocket flew twice in 2014 but not once since. It also doesn't look competitive.
    * The Nauka ISS module that should have launched in 2007 is still not finished.
    * Russia has never had a successful interplanetary mission. Fobos-2, the last (partially) successful one was as the USSR.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Depew, NY
    Posts
    12,207
    Scientifically speaking, every time a probe investigates Venus there are dozens, if not hundreds of papers. Virtually all of them will reference an earlier Russian/Soviet authored paper. Unless someone comes up with completely unique data and equipment unlike anything seen, before I guess it will stay a "Russian Planet" in the body of work.
    Solfe

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nowhere (middle)
    Posts
    37,997
    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    Kind of conceding Mars to the US there, isn't he? And Jupiter, and Saturn, and Pluto!

    He can have Venus!
    If we're owning whole planets now, I claim Earth by squatter's rights.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    582
    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    If we're owning whole planets now, I claim Earth by squatter's rights.

    I wonder if I can lay claim to the Moon by the virtue of my user name.

    Of course, the response from the web was predictable. I've noticed more than a few internet denizens counting up probes and footprints and declaring the U.S. owns half the solar system and maybe the heliosphere as well.

    However, I've also been somewhat amused by the number of people confusing phosphine with phosgene.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nowhere (middle)
    Posts
    37,997
    I guess the Outer Space Treaty is now to be one with the Treaty of Versailles. It's been systematically weakened by several countries' efforts over the last couple of years, now it's last vestiges are being swept aside. Too bad, it was nice while it lasted.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    582
    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    I guess the Outer Space Treaty is now to be one with the Treaty of Versailles. It's been systematically weakened by several countries' efforts over the last couple of years, now it's last vestiges are being swept aside. Too bad, it was nice while it lasted.
    I get the uneasy feeling that something parallel is currently happening here on earth with the old 1959 Antarctic Treaty. It has no teeth, but self regulation and is simply becoming less relevant with time, faced as it is with intensifying competition over abundant natural resources, tourism and climate change. Bending of the rules goes on all the time and only gets worse with time.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    14,420
    Quote Originally Posted by Selenite View Post
    Commenting on the exclusively Russian expeditions to Venus, Rogozin told reporters: “Resuming Venus exploration is on our agenda. Firstly, we have the Venera-D project in cooperation with the Americans. We are also considering our own mission to Venus. We think that Venus is a Russian planet, so we shouldn’t lag behind.”

    I'm assuming this to be empty nationalistic hyperbole, as the Outer Space Treaty of 1967 prevents countries from staking claims on a celestial body. I believe there was a time when the 'Red Planet' was seen to be the planet of destiny for Russia, but that ship seems to have sailed.
    I think we also have to be aware of translation problems. I have no idea what he actually said in Russian, but sometimes there are phrases that translate poorly into other languages. He might have simply been saying "it is a planet that we pioneered" without making any claim about ownership (as far as I know, Russia is supportive of the idea that you can't own other planets, etc.). There was a case recently in Japan where a government minister said "we definitely have to hold the Olympics" and it was translated into English at "at any cost," and she got a great amount of criticism in the English world but not in Japan, because the implication of "at any cost" implies "no matter how many people die." By "a Russian planet" he might simply have been meaning to say "a planet that is dear to us." But again, I don't speak Russian so can't really say one way or the other.
    As above, so below

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    582
    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    I think we also have to be aware of translation problems. I have no idea what he actually said in Russian, but sometimes there are phrases that translate poorly into other languages. He might have simply been saying "it is a planet that we pioneered" without making any claim about ownership (as far as I know, Russia is supportive of the idea that you can't own other planets, etc.). There was a case recently in Japan where a government minister said "we definitely have to hold the Olympics" and it was translated into English at "at any cost," and she got a great amount of criticism in the English world but not in Japan, because the implication of "at any cost" implies "no matter how many people die." By "a Russian planet" he might simply have been meaning to say "a planet that is dear to us." But again, I don't speak Russian so can't really say one way or the other.
    That's an interesting point which might be quite valid.

    Going a bit off topic, it doesn't quite surprise me about the Japanese government minister being misunderstood. I've often heard it said that the Japanese language is fraught with a degree of equivocation, especially to the ears of those who didn't grow up speaking it. That the Japanese tend to communicate through subtlety and understatement often leaving important things unspoken. Which I always interpreted as a lot of reading between the lines. It's my understanding that Japanese rarely use the word “no.” It’s not that they can’t say the word, but they prefer to use “maybe.” Apparently, Japanese custom has a powerful taboo against directly refusing or giving negative opinions to someone else’s ideas.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •