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Thread: PBH collides with Sol

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    PBH collides with Sol

    I am in the middle of a Scifi novel in which a Jupiter Mass primordial Black Hole is to collide with the sun from north of the ecliptic plane. I already read a novel later in the series (I didn't know at the time they were in sequence) so I know there will be some kind of deus ex machina in the novel.
    What would the details of The End Of The World be like in such a scenario?
    SHARKS (crossed out) MONGEESE (sic) WITH FRICKIN' LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mazanec View Post
    What would the details of The End Of The World be like in such a scenario?
    Nothing--the World wouldn't End at all.
    Stars are transparent to the passage of primordial black holes ...
    Grant Hutchison

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    If a PBH hit a neutron star, something would happen, but it might just be a weak GRB and detected as strangely shaped gravitational waves.
    Forming opinions as we speak

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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    I guess that one with the mass of Jupiter wouldn't have much of an effect, but I guess that it would slightly elongate the sun in its direction as it approached and then in
    the other direction after it passed through?
    As above, so below

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    There have been linear quakes detected by SMU that make me wonder if Earth gets hit from time to time

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    Quote Originally Posted by publiusr View Post
    There have been linear quakes detected by SMU that make me wonder if Earth gets hit from time to time
    Can you give me links for that?
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    Try the 2003 (Dec) Bulletin of the seismological society of America.
    In 1984 Edward Witten proposed a passage of a quark nugget.
    I’m thinking it could as easily have been a PBH at speed, so no Niven Hole Man disaster there either.
    Hard to copy past with this ruddy phone...

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    Come to think of it, what if an asteroidal PBH (minimum mass) collides with ME?
    SHARKS (crossed out) MONGEESE (sic) WITH FRICKIN' LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mazanec View Post
    Come to think of it, what if an asteroidal PBH (minimum mass) collides with ME?
    So, an asteroid mass black hole (let's use the size from the paper grant linked, at 1018kg) is on the order of a nanometer in size. It won't collide in a traditional sense; just like a star, you're largely transparent to such a tiny, dense object. So it will pass through you. You'll have two problems. One is that the gravitational force is about 1024 g, with some pretty severe tidal stresses. That gravitational force won't extend beyond a half meter or so, but that kind of stress seems like it could cause problems. The other issue is that it has a temperature of about 120,000 K, so you'd get hit with a pretty strong dose of radiation as it passed through.
    Last edited by Grey; 2020-Jul-14 at 07:22 PM. Reason: Corrected spelling.
    Conserve energy. Commute with the Hamiltonian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    Stars being transparent to them only means the stars don't pose much of an obstacle to them, not that the stars are unaffected. In fact, that paper is about effects of such passage that should be detectable for large enough PBHs. Larger PBHs would have more severe effects, and at some point those effects would be TEOTWAWKI.

    Fortunately, while smaller PBHs might have effects subtle enough that we would only see them with our own sun, ones big enough to have world-ending effects would be noticeable from a distance, and we haven't seen a lot of stars putting on weird world-ending displays with no apparent cause.

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    Yes, the PBH in the story was Jupiter size, much bigger than what the scientific paper was considering.
    SHARKS (crossed out) MONGEESE (sic) WITH FRICKIN' LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

  12. 2020-Jul-14, 11:42 AM
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    Dupilcate

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjameshuff View Post
    Stars being transparent to them only means the stars don't pose much of an obstacle to them, not that the stars are unaffected.
    Sure. Just as Tom is transparent to a primordial black hole.

    Grant Hutchison

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mazanec View Post
    Yes, the PBH in the story was Jupiter size, much bigger than what the scientific paper was considering.
    Indeed it is. I missed the "Jupiter mass" in the OP. Sorry. If the "fractional loss of energy" approximation given in the paper is valid for that high a mass, then the Jupiter-mass PBH will deposit about a thousandth of its kinetic energy as it passes through the Sun.
    So we need to know the velocity to get an idea of what might happen.

    Grant Hutchison
    Last edited by grant hutchison; 2020-Jul-14 at 12:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    So we need to know the velocity to get an idea of what might happen.
    Assume solar escape velocity, for the sake of argument. A thousandth of the associated kinetic energy then comes out to be ~3.6x1035J (I've used rounded numbers, so I wouldn't invested any faith beyond OOM). That's about 30 years' worth of solar energy output, deposited in a time period on the order of an hour. I'd assume most of it in the core, where frictional losses will be highest.
    Of course, if we assume solar escape velocity, then the PBH has now aerobraked into a long elliptical orbit and will be back later.

    Grant Hutchison

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    The PBH was faster than that, but I don't want to give any details because it is too involved (and would be spoilers).
    SHARKS (crossed out) MONGEESE (sic) WITH FRICKIN' LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    You'll have two problems. One is that the gravitational force is about 1024 g, with some pretty severe tidal stresses. The other issue is that it has a temperature of about 120,000 K, so you'd get hit with a pretty strong dose of radiation as it passed through.
    Yikes—the “Oh, My God” particle meets the Ice Warrior/Master’s tissue compression gun.

    “What happened to Todd, again?”
    Coroner: Dunno...maybe he coughed, sneezed, burped and broke wind all at the same time...”

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    In one of James P. Hogan's novels, nanoscopic black holes or worm holes were created by a scientific experiment and began "orbiting" the Earth and its core. They would occasionally injure people. I remember they got called "bugaphants" because they were the size of viruses with the mass of an elephant. IIRC they had to change history because they would accumulate at the Earth's center, coalesce and start eating the Earth.
    SHARKS (crossed out) MONGEESE (sic) WITH FRICKIN' LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mazanec View Post
    In one of James P. Hogan's novels, nanoscopic black holes or worm holes were created by a scientific experiment and began "orbiting" the Earth and its core. They would occasionally injure people. I remember they got called "bugaphants" because they were the size of viruses with the mass of an elephant. IIRC they had to change history because they would accumulate at the Earth's center, coalesce and start eating the Earth.
    Thrice Upon A Time. I read that in July 1980, just after I graduated and before I started work. My copy looks like a brick of puff pastry, because I took it on a very wet camping trip.

    Grant Hutchison

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