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Thread: The COVID-19 Discussion Thread (OTB)

  1. #1321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    With over 28 million cases and over half a million deaths in the US, we have to have reached the point where pretty much everyone knows people who have had Covid-19 and someone who has died.

    I'm probably up to about a dozen people I know who have had it, and one who has died (a friend's father-in-law).
    I think I predicted back last spring that before this was over, most people would personally know someone who died, and we'd all certainly know people who had been affected seriously. It's a prediction that I would have been happy to be wrong about, but I was sadly quite sure it was a safe one.
    Conserve energy. Commute with the Hamiltonian.

  2. #1322
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    Yesterday, I got the news that my favourite aunt--honestly, my favourite relative outside Graham and the kids--got her first shot. I should find out about my mom, too.
    _____________________________________________
    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  3. #1323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    I think I predicted back last spring that before this was over, most people would personally know someone who died, and we'd all certainly know people who had been affected seriously. It's a prediction that I would have been happy to be wrong about, but I was sadly quite sure it was a safe one.
    Indeed. Two of my cousins got it, one died. And we still have idiots doing the denialist thing.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  4. #1324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    And we still have idiots doing the denialist thing.
    Idiocy is even worse than Covid. There is a treatment and a vaccine (education), but like the Covid vaccine, it is not completely effective, and some people just refuse to get it.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

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  5. #1325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    Idiocy is even worse than Covid. There is a treatment and a vaccine (education), but like the Covid vaccine, it is not completely effective, and some people just refuse to get it.
    Even actively oppose it!
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  6. #1326
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    In a similar vein i have a friend who is reading some CT sites and watching related videos. He says the current vaccines are gene therapy and side effects may take years to manifest.

    I suspect there is a faith-based underpinning in his POV so I’m not inclined to push back since he might take it as a personal attack. But i had not heard before that the anti-vax crowd sees this as gene therapy. How could that be? As I understand it, the rMNA vaccines are inducing an immune response and not inserting genetic material into cells.

    And of course he wont take the vaccine. Not sure about his wife.

  7. #1327
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlaugh View Post
    But i had not heard before that the anti-vax crowd sees this as gene therapy. How could that be? As I understand it, the rMNA vaccines are inducing an immune response and not inserting genetic material into cells.
    The mRNA doesn't directly induce an immune response. It codes for a SARS-CoV-2 protein, and uses your cells' ribosomes to make the cells churn out and express that protein. A small amount of mRNA is amplified by the cellular machinery into a large amount of antigen, so you get a good immune response for a small investment in vaccine molecules. But the lifetime of mRNA in a eukaryotic cell is measured in hours to days, and it doesn't get incorporated into the genome, so it's very much not gene therapy in the usual sense of that phrase.

    Grant Hutchison

  8. #1328
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    The mRNA doesn't directly induce an immune response. It codes for a SARS-CoV-2 protein, and uses your cells' ribosomes to make the cells churn out and express that protein. A small amount of mRNA is amplified by the cellular machinery into a large amount of antigen, so you get a good immune response for a small investment in vaccine molecules. But the lifetime of mRNA in a eukaryotic cell is measured in hours to days, and it doesn't get incorporated into the genome, so it's very much not gene therapy in the usual sense of that phrase.

    Grant Hutchison
    Thank you for the explanation. As I fear this is being politicized and spun into an "evil gene manipulation" story. It's a wonder we're not all going to turn green and grow into hulking giants. *rolleyes*

  9. #1329
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlaugh View Post
    I suspect there is a faith-based underpinning in his POV so I’m not inclined to push back since he might take it as a personal attack.
    A widespread problem of its own... people get defensive about even the most rational fact-based critiques of their beliefs.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  10. #1330
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlaugh View Post
    Thank you for the explanation. As I fear this is being politicized and spun into an "evil gene manipulation" story. It's a wonder we're not all going to turn green and grow into hulking giants. *rolleyes*
    Well, the fact these vaccines hijack cellular machinery at a genetic level was a legitimate cause for concern, a decade ago. It certainly seemed possible that if you were infected with a retrovirus at the time you received an mRNA vaccine, the retrovirus's reverse transcriptase enzyme might write complementary DNA into your genome. But it seems that few people are aware of how much experience we've had with mRNA vaccines since then, and how closely that concern was investigated.
    For people who are worried particularly about RNA/DNA vaccines (and not just buying into a whole antivax conspiracy hypothesis) there will be some conventional Covid vaccines appearing soon, but I frankly doubt if they'll make more than a tiny difference to the prevalence of "vaccine hesitancy".
    And for people with serious allergies, I'm seeing suggestions that Inovio's upcoming DNA vaccine may be the safest option--it reportedly consists of little more than DNA and water.

    Grant Hutchison

  11. #1331
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    If we could do genetic therapy this easily . . . .
    _____________________________________________
    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  12. #1332
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    Be careful what you wish for...some monster could splice sickle cell anemia for selectivity, HIV for the long incubation, with something airborne. A bioreactor and crop-dusters don’t need the infrastructure involved in processing yellowcake.
    I understand why folks are scared of this tech. One more reason I want it done off-world.

  13. #1333
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    Quote Originally Posted by publiusr View Post
    Be careful what you wish for...some monster could splice sickle cell anemia for selectivity, HIV for the long incubation, with something airborne. A bioreactor and crop-dusters don’t need the infrastructure involved in processing yellowcake.
    I understand why folks are scared of this tech. One more reason I want it done off-world.
    Nowhere near that easy, of course, any more than cloned dinosaurs are a threat to amusement parks. Human and viral genetic engineering and virology and immunology are very complicated and our knowledge of them, incomplete. Someday a true existentially threatening artificial bioweapon like that may become dangerous but it's not within present capability.

    Keep in mind that if someone could whip up a deadly disease in their basement with a laptop and off the shelf biotech, finding a cure would be equally easy, because the process used to make it would have to be fairly straightforward.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  14. #1334
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    Excellent vaccine uptake in Scotland so far, as we work our way down the age tiers. According to the Public Health Scotland Covid dashboard, we've now vaccinated 100.3% of males aged 75-79. That's got to be good.

    Grant Hutchison

  15. #1335
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    100.3% ? Someone get three doses?
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

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  16. #1336
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    I'm getting a shot next week!

    A friend texted my sister that the age in Indiana was just lowered to 50, so right away she jumped on it and grabbed me an appointment, Pfizer vaccine. I'll be the last adult in my household to get vaccinated.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  17. #1337
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    Italy, and subsequently the E.U, has just banned the export of some 250,000 doses of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine to Australia. This is the first time such a ban by the EU has happened. It is not a major problem for us as the vaccination process here is just ramping up and we still have sufficient supplies of both the AstraZeneca & Pfizer vaccines to continue vaccinating the 'priority' people - front line medical personnel., immigration & quarantine staff, the elderly, the immunocompromised etc. Also, our locally produced AstraZeneca vaccine will be delivered from March 22 at the rate of a Million doses a week so the vaccination of the rest of the population is still on track. The deliveries of the Pfizer vaccine, from countries other than Italy, are continuing. However, it certainly does not endear either Italy of the E.U to us locals. Late last month the EU Ambassador here offered assurances that supplies would not be restricted by the EU but individual countries, like Italy, can demand such an embargo on vaccine produced in their country.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56279202
    Last edited by ozduck; 2021-Mar-05 at 03:17 AM.

  18. #1338
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    I received my vaccination today. It was done at the (relatively) nearby NFL stadium.
    The stadium is an ideal location. It has easy access by automobile and light rail, plenty of parking, and plenty of exterior and interior space.

    Mrs Extravoice has to wait until the next category is authorized. I suspect she could get vaccinated now if we had less moral character. They weren't checking proof of eligibility, just asking us to confirm.
    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. - Jimmy Hoffa

  19. #1339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extravoice View Post
    I received my vaccination today. It was done at the (relatively) nearby NFL stadium.
    The stadium is an ideal location. It has easy access by automobile and light rail, plenty of parking, and plenty of exterior and interior space.

    Mrs Extravoice has to wait until the next category is authorized. I suspect she could get vaccinated now if we had less moral character. They weren't checking proof of eligibility, just asking us to confirm.
    They didn't do it out on the playing field, did they?

    If so, can you toss a ball around for a while after the shot?
    A: "Things that are equal to the same are equal to each other"
    B: "The two sides of this triangle are things that are equal to the same"
    C: "If A and B are true, Z must be true"
    D: "If A and B and C are true, Z must be true"
    E: "If A and B and C and D are true, Z must be true"

    Therefore, Z: "The two sides of this triangle are equal to each other"

  20. #1340
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Century Schizoid Man View Post
    They didn't do it out on the playing field, did they?

    If so, can you toss a ball around for a while after the shot?
    No, it was done on something called the “club level.” The line wound around the ground level, which is exposed to the outside, then we went up an escalator and indoors for the shot and mandatory allergic reaction waiting period.
    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. - Jimmy Hoffa

  21. #1341
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    Here they do it right in your car. You don't have to get out or anything. Less than two weeks now til our second shot! Which reminds me, I need to take pictures of the cards they gave us to have on our phones.

    ETA: In the "amuses me" department, Google sends me a monthly update on where I've been. Which is generally nowhere. Anyway, the latest one showed we'd visited a local hotel. Because the vaccination site is in their parking lot.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  22. #1342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    Here they do it right in your car. You don't have to get out or anything.
    I know in Nevada they have that drive-through wedding place. Now there is drive-through vaccination.

    Is there drive-through birthing yet?

    But, when it is drive through, do they still make you wait around to see whether there is a bad reaction?
    A: "Things that are equal to the same are equal to each other"
    B: "The two sides of this triangle are things that are equal to the same"
    C: "If A and B are true, Z must be true"
    D: "If A and B and C are true, Z must be true"
    E: "If A and B and C and D are true, Z must be true"

    Therefore, Z: "The two sides of this triangle are equal to each other"

  23. #1343
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Century Schizoid Man View Post
    Is there drive-through birthing yet?
    I once saw what happens when a woman gives birth in the back seat of a car. (Her husband drove the wrong way up a long one-way road in an effort to get to the hospital faster, but to no avail--he was stopped by the police, but then given a police escort the rest of the way.)
    It was a classic Rolls Royce with cream leather upholstery and interior trim. The woman told me later that he'd shouted "Please just try to be careful!" at one point during the journey. While we were in Accident & Emergency cutting the cord and delivering the placenta, he was still outside in the carpark, weeping.

    Grant Hutchison

  24. #1344
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Century Schizoid Man View Post
    But, when it is drive through, do they still make you wait around to see whether there is a bad reaction?
    I have no personal experience, but from what I've heard from people - yes.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

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  25. #1345
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21st Century Schizoid Man View Post
    But, when it is drive through, do they still make you wait around to see whether there is a bad reaction?
    Yes. It was extremely well-organized.
    You start out in line on the street behind the hotel. Volunteers come and check that you're on the list of appointments, verify you've filled out the form, etc. You work your way around the corner and pretty soon someone comes and checks your temperature before you turn into the parking lot. They have canopies set up for the actual vaccinators to work in. The line splits in two and there are two canopies in each line so they can be working four cars at one time.
    Having got the shot, you're directed around a corner and shown where to park. A volunteer notes when you arrived and asks how you're feeling. After 15 minutes he comes back, checks that you're ok, and says you can go.
    The reason for using the parking lot in front of the hotel is that the hospital is across the street!
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  26. #1346
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    My wife and I just got our first shots (Moderna).
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

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  27. #1347
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    I get my second shot on the 18th, 50 miles away.

    If my wife's CVS store does shots this Friday, she will get her first then, 8 miles away.
    Do good work. —Virgil Ivan "Gus" Grissom

  28. #1348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger E. Moore View Post
    I get my second shot on the 18th, 50 miles away.

    If my wife's CVS store does shots this Friday, she will get her first then, 8 miles away.
    I guess we kind of split the difference; we had to go 20 miles. It was at Giant Eagle's pharmacy (a regional grocery store). I give them credit - they had a very efficient operation, we got our shots at the appointed time, and immediately scheduled our appointments for the next shots.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

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  29. #1349
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    When I scheduled my first shot I set it for 5:45pm. About 1:00pm they sent me a text saying I could come in any time. My second shot was automatically set for three weeks later at 5:45. That day I got a text that they wanted to close by 5 so could I come early. They were very efficient and running ahead of schedule. And keep in mind my second shot was one day after The Big Freeze.

    The Wife gets her second shot Friday.
    Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
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    You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don’t alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views.
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  30. #1350
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    Graham is in theory supposed to be getting his first shot soon. Since this relies on the military . . . .
    _____________________________________________
    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

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