The COVID-19 Discussion Thread (OTB)

[Grey]

With over 28 million cases and over half a million deaths in the US, we have to have reached the point where pretty much everyone knows people who have had Covid-19 and someone who has died.

I'm probably up to about a dozen people I know who have had it, and one who has died (a friend's father-in-law).

I think I predicted back last spring that before this was over, most people would personally know someone who died, and we'd all certainly know people who had been affected seriously. It's a prediction that I would have been happy to be wrong about, but I was sadly quite sure it was a safe one.

[Gillianren]

Yesterday, I got the news that my favourite aunt--honestly, my favourite relative outside Graham and the kids--got her first shot. I should find out about my mom, too.

[Trebuchet]

I think I predicted back last spring that before this was over, most people would personally know someone who died, and we'd all certainly know people who had been affected seriously. It's a prediction that I would have been happy to be wrong about, but I was sadly quite sure it was a safe one.

Indeed. Two of my cousins got it, one died. And we still have idiots doing the denialist thing.

[Swift]

And we still have idiots doing the denialist thing.

Idiocy is even worse than Covid. There is a treatment and a vaccine (education), but like the Covid vaccine, it is not completely effective, and some people just refuse to get it.

[Trebuchet]

Idiocy is even worse than Covid. There is a treatment and a vaccine (education), but like the Covid vaccine, it is not completely effective, and some people just refuse to get it.

Even actively oppose it!

[schlaugh]

In a similar vein i have a friend who is reading some CT sites and watching related videos. He says the current vaccines are gene therapy and side effects may take years to manifest.

I suspect there is a faith-based underpinning in his POV so I’m not inclined to push back since he might take it as a personal attack. But i had not heard before that the anti-vax crowd sees this as gene therapy. How could that be? As I understand it, the rMNA vaccines are inducing an immune response and not inserting genetic material into cells.

And of course he wont take the vaccine. Not sure about his wife.

[grant hutchison]

But i had not heard before that the anti-vax crowd sees this as gene therapy. How could that be? As I understand it, the rMNA vaccines are inducing an immune response and not inserting genetic material into cells.

The mRNA doesn't directly induce an immune response. It codes for a SARS-CoV-2 protein, and uses your cells' ribosomes to make the cells churn out and express that protein. A small amount of mRNA is amplified by the cellular machinery into a large amount of antigen, so you get a good immune response for a small investment in vaccine molecules. But the lifetime of mRNA in a eukaryotic cell is measured in hours to days, and it doesn't get incorporated into the genome, so it's very much not gene therapy in the usual sense of that phrase.

Grant Hutchison

[schlaugh]

The mRNA doesn't directly induce an immune response. It codes for a SARS-CoV-2 protein, and uses your cells' ribosomes to make the cells churn out and express that protein. A small amount of mRNA is amplified by the cellular machinery into a large amount of antigen, so you get a good immune response for a small investment in vaccine molecules. But the lifetime of mRNA in a eukaryotic cell is measured in hours to days, and it doesn't get incorporated into the genome, so it's very much not gene therapy in the usual sense of that phrase.

Grant Hutchison

Thank you for the explanation. As I fear this is being politicized and spun into an "evil gene manipulation" story. It's a wonder we're not all going to turn green and grow into hulking giants. *rolleyes*

[Noclevername]

I suspect there is a faith-based underpinning in his POV so I’m not inclined to push back since he might take it as a personal attack.

A widespread problem of its own... people get defensive about even the most rational fact-based critiques of their beliefs.

[grant hutchison]

Thank you for the explanation. As I fear this is being politicized and spun into an "evil gene manipulation" story. It's a wonder we're not all going to turn green and grow into hulking giants. *rolleyes*

Well, the fact these vaccines hijack cellular machinery at a genetic level was a legitimate cause for concern, a decade ago. It certainly seemed possible that if you were infected with a retrovirus at the time you received an mRNA vaccine, the retrovirus's reverse transcriptase enzyme might write complementary DNA into your genome. But it seems that few people are aware of how much experience we've had with mRNA vaccines since then, and how closely that concern was investigated.
For people who are worried particularly about RNA/DNA vaccines (and not just buying into a whole antivax conspiracy hypothesis) there will be some conventional Covid vaccines appearing soon, but I frankly doubt if they'll make more than a tiny difference to the prevalence of "vaccine hesitancy".
And for people with serious allergies, I'm seeing suggestions that Inovio's upcoming DNA vaccine may be the safest option--it reportedly consists of little more than DNA and water.

Grant Hutchison

[Gillianren]

If we could do genetic therapy this easily . . . .

[publiusr]

Be careful what you wish for...some monster could splice sickle cell anemia for selectivity, HIV for the long incubation, with something airborne. A bioreactor and crop-dusters don’t need the infrastructure involved in processing yellowcake.
I understand why folks are scared of this tech. One more reason I want it done off-world.

[Noclevername]

Be careful what you wish for...some monster could splice sickle cell anemia for selectivity, HIV for the long incubation, with something airborne. A bioreactor and crop-dusters don’t need the infrastructure involved in processing yellowcake.
I understand why folks are scared of this tech. One more reason I want it done off-world.

Nowhere near that easy, of course, any more than cloned dinosaurs are a threat to amusement parks. Human and viral genetic engineering and virology and immunology are very complicated and our knowledge of them, incomplete. Someday a true existentially threatening artificial bioweapon like that may become dangerous but it's not within present capability.

Keep in mind that if someone could whip up a deadly disease in their basement with a laptop and off the shelf biotech, finding a cure would be equally easy, because the process used to make it would have to be fairly straightforward.

[grant hutchison]

Excellent vaccine uptake in Scotland so far, as we work our way down the age tiers. According to the Public Health Scotland Covid dashboard, we've now vaccinated 100.3% of males aged 75-79. That's got to be good.

Grant Hutchison

[Swift]

100.3% ? Someone get three doses?

[Noclevername]

I'm getting a shot next week!

A friend texted my sister that the age in Indiana was just lowered to 50, so right away she jumped on it and grabbed me an appointment, Pfizer vaccine. I'll be the last adult in my household to get vaccinated.

[ozduck]

Italy, and subsequently the E.U, has just banned the export of some 250,000 doses of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine to Australia. This is the first time such a ban by the EU has happened. It is not a major problem for us as the vaccination process here is just ramping up and we still have sufficient supplies of both the AstraZeneca & Pfizer vaccines to continue vaccinating the 'priority' people - front line medical personnel., immigration & quarantine staff, the elderly, the immunocompromised etc. Also, our locally produced AstraZeneca vaccine will be delivered from March 22 at the rate of a Million doses a week so the vaccination of the rest of the population is still on track. The deliveries of the Pfizer vaccine, from countries other than Italy, are continuing. However, it certainly does not endear either Italy of the E.U to us locals. Late last month the EU Ambassador here offered assurances that supplies would not be restricted by the EU but individual countries, like Italy, can demand such an embargo on vaccine produced in their country.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56279202

[Extravoice]

I received my vaccination today. It was done at the (relatively) nearby NFL stadium.
The stadium is an ideal location. It has easy access by automobile and light rail, plenty of parking, and plenty of exterior and interior space.

Mrs Extravoice has to wait until the next category is authorized. I suspect she could get vaccinated now if we had less moral character. They weren't checking proof of eligibility, just asking us to confirm.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

I received my vaccination today. It was done at the (relatively) nearby NFL stadium.
The stadium is an ideal location. It has easy access by automobile and light rail, plenty of parking, and plenty of exterior and interior space.

Mrs Extravoice has to wait until the next category is authorized. I suspect she could get vaccinated now if we had less moral character. They weren't checking proof of eligibility, just asking us to confirm.

They didn't do it out on the playing field, did they?

If so, can you toss a ball around for a while after the shot?

[Extravoice]

They didn't do it out on the playing field, did they?

If so, can you toss a ball around for a while after the shot?

No, it was done on something called the “club level.” The line wound around the ground level, which is exposed to the outside, then we went up an escalator and indoors for the shot and mandatory allergic reaction waiting period.

[Trebuchet]

Here they do it right in your car. You don't have to get out or anything. Less than two weeks now til our second shot! Which reminds me, I need to take pictures of the cards they gave us to have on our phones.

ETA: In the "amuses me" department, Google sends me a monthly update on where I've been. Which is generally nowhere. Anyway, the latest one showed we'd visited a local hotel. Because the vaccination site is in their parking lot.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Here they do it right in your car. You don't have to get out or anything.

I know in Nevada they have that drive-through wedding place. Now there is drive-through vaccination.

Is there drive-through birthing yet?

But, when it is drive through, do they still make you wait around to see whether there is a bad reaction?

[grant hutchison]

Is there drive-through birthing yet?

I once saw what happens when a woman gives birth in the back seat of a car. (Her husband drove the wrong way up a long one-way road in an effort to get to the hospital faster, but to no avail--he was stopped by the police, but then given a police escort the rest of the way.)
It was a classic Rolls Royce with cream leather upholstery and interior trim. The woman told me later that he'd shouted "Please just try to be careful!" at one point during the journey. While we were in Accident & Emergency cutting the cord and delivering the placenta, he was still outside in the carpark, weeping.

Grant Hutchison

[Swift]

But, when it is drive through, do they still make you wait around to see whether there is a bad reaction?

I have no personal experience, but from what I've heard from people - yes.

[Trebuchet]

But, when it is drive through, do they still make you wait around to see whether there is a bad reaction?

Yes. It was extremely well-organized.
You start out in line on the street behind the hotel. Volunteers come and check that you're on the list of appointments, verify you've filled out the form, etc. You work your way around the corner and pretty soon someone comes and checks your temperature before you turn into the parking lot. They have canopies set up for the actual vaccinators to work in. The line splits in two and there are two canopies in each line so they can be working four cars at one time.
Having got the shot, you're directed around a corner and shown where to park. A volunteer notes when you arrived and asks how you're feeling. After 15 minutes he comes back, checks that you're ok, and says you can go.
The reason for using the parking lot in front of the hotel is that the hospital is across the street!

[Swift]

My wife and I just got our first shots (Moderna).

[Roger E. Moore]

I get my second shot on the 18th, 50 miles away.

If my wife's CVS store does shots this Friday, she will get her first then, 8 miles away.

[Swift]

I get my second shot on the 18th, 50 miles away.

If my wife's CVS store does shots this Friday, she will get her first then, 8 miles away.

I guess we kind of split the difference; we had to go 20 miles. It was at Giant Eagle's pharmacy (a regional grocery store). I give them credit - they had a very efficient operation, we got our shots at the appointed time, and immediately scheduled our appointments for the next shots.

[Jim]

When I scheduled my first shot I set it for 5:45pm. About 1:00pm they sent me a text saying I could come in any time. My second shot was automatically set for three weeks later at 5:45. That day I got a text that they wanted to close by 5 so could I come early. They were very efficient and running ahead of schedule. And keep in mind my second shot was one day after The Big Freeze.

The Wife gets her second shot Friday.

[Gillianren]

Graham is in theory supposed to be getting his first shot soon. Since this relies on the military . . . .