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Thread: The COVID-19 Discussion Thread (OTB)

  1. #2101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solfe View Post
    Are the needles actually long enough to hit a vein? I imagine that the needle used for my COVID vaccination was smaller that my insulin needles. I honestly don't remember how big it was, but it seemed that it was smaller than whatever I use for insulin. (I have no idea how "big" my needles are. I guess "tiny" would described them nicely.) I've managed to ding something and bleed a drop or so from an injection every now and then, so I guess I could be hitting a vein. I'm probably less skilled at injections that anyone who has been trained to do it as a job function. I probably couldn't find a vein on purpose. I'm not terribly afraid of hitting a vein, should I be?
    If you avoid sticking your needle into something that actually looks like a vein, then you're not going to hit a significant blood vessel accidentally when injecting subcutaneous insulin.
    That said, it's certainly easy enough to inject into a vein using an insulin syringe, if you set out to put the needle into a visible vein. Insulin syringes and needles are very popular with IV heroin users, for instance.

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  2. #2102
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    Front page of the local weekly has a story about a 59 year old local woman who didn't trust the vaccine. Now she's dead.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  3. #2103
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    Covid and medical industry

    We know people with pre-existing medical condition have more change of dying by covid. Governments, food industry and medical industry have asked us to take vaccine but they have not asked us to improve our general health by eating healthy food & lose weight.

    They have also put us in our mind over the years that we can't lose weight, we can't control diabetes, high blood pressure and high cholesterol by diet and exercise.

    Don't you think it is time we take our health serious and follow a good diet ( there are lot of tips on the internet) ?

    After I started eating healthy food I lost 18 kg and my sugar, cholesterol and High BP have considerably reduced.

  4. #2104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    Front page of the local weekly has a story about a 59 year old local woman who didn't trust the vaccine. Now she's dead.
    Your "other forum" told me about this whole site for these people: https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/


    Thanks grant hutchison for the further info.
    Measure once, cut twice. Practice makes perfect.

  5. #2105
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    Quote Originally Posted by pzkpfw View Post
    Your "other forum" told me about this whole site for these people: https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/


    Thanks grant hutchison for the further info.
    I'm not sure what other forum you are referring, but thanks for this PSA.

  6. #2106
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    Deleted duplicate post.

  7. #2107
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    Quote Originally Posted by pzkpfw View Post
    Your "other forum" told me about this whole site for these people: https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/
    For all its protestations of being "educational", it seems to me there's an unpleasant tone of gloating to that site.

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  8. #2108
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    Sounds like the Moderna vaccine is lasting longer.

    76.2% of US adults have at least 1 injection (the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna mRNA vaccines requiring 2). 54% are fully vaccinated.

    (BTW: both the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna mRNA vaccines have been working on the variants)

    https://news.yahoo.com/big-gap-betwe...034719881.html

    Big gap between Pfizer, Moderna vaccines seen for preventing COVID hospitalizations

    Amid persistent concerns that the*protection offered by COVID-19 vaccines may be waning, a report released Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention finds that America's workhorse shot is significantly less effective at preventing severe cases of disease over the long term than many experts had realized.

    Data collected from 18 states between March and August suggest the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine reduces the risk of being hospitalized with COVID-19 by 91% in the first four months after receiving the second dose. Beyond 120 days, however, that*vaccine efficacy drops*to 77%.

    Meanwhile, Moderna's vaccine was 93% effective at reducing the short-term risk of COVID-19 hospitalization and remained 92% effective after 120 days.

    Overall, 54% of fully vaccinated Americans have been immunized with the Pfizer shot.

    The surprising findings came as a Food and Drug Administration advisory panel recommended against offering booster doses of the Pfizer vaccine to all Americans ages 16 and older. In a striking rebuke, 16 of 18 experts told the agency it had not mustered enough data to make a third shot the norm.
    >
    Last edited by docmordrid; 2021-Sep-18 at 05:42 PM.

  9. #2109
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmordrid View Post
    Sounds like the Moderna vaccine is lasting longer.

    76.2% of US adults have at least 1 injection (the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna mRNA vaccines requiring 2). 54% are fully vaccinated.

    (BTW: both the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna mRNA vaccines have been working on the variants)

    https://news.yahoo.com/big-gap-betwe...034719881.html
    That figures, we had the Pfizer vaccines in March.

  10. #2110
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    We all received Moderna. No problem, just sore arms for 24h.

  11. #2111
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    Quote Originally Posted by bknight View Post
    That figures, we had the Pfizer vaccines in March.
    Same here. My wife, with immune problems, got her third shot a couple of weeks ago. I almost asked at the pharmacy today if I could get the third one but they had a huge line for flu shots!
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  12. #2112
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    So, I had to go into town. I absolutely, no questions asked, utterly essentially, had to go into town. Because there was insufficient milk for my wife's latte in the morning.
    Foolishness aside, here's some real foolishness: There were half a dozen anti-mask, anti-vax, anti-intelligence protesters at the corner of Safeway, McDonalds, and boatyard. With signs like "MRNA Vax = Human GMO". "Vaccine passports = tyranny." "Free-DUMB".
    Ok, I made that last one up. sort of. These morons seriously think that asking them to get masked and wear a mask is some sort of tyranny. That getting a safe, effective vaccine will alter your DNA and make brass keys stick to your arm. They are all about the free-DUMB.
    I made a point of leaving my mask on and staring at them as I drove past.

    This is probably one of the most liberal communities in the USA. They are a small minority here. And a majority elsewhere. But they believe this crappe primarily for political reasons, as proven by their other signs I haven't listed.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  13. #2113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    So, I had to go into town. I absolutely, no questions asked, utterly essentially, had to go into town. Because there was insufficient milk for my wife's latte in the morning.
    Foolishness aside, here's some real foolishness: There were half a dozen anti-mask, anti-vax, anti-intelligence protesters at the corner of Safeway, McDonalds, and boatyard. With signs like "MRNA Vax = Human GMO". "Vaccine passports = tyranny." "Free-DUMB".
    Ok, I made that last one up. sort of. These morons seriously think that asking them to get masked and wear a mask is some sort of tyranny. That getting a safe, effective vaccine will alter your DNA and make brass keys stick to your arm. They are all about the free-DUMB.
    I made a point of leaving my mask on and staring at them as I drove past.

    This is probably one of the most liberal communities in the USA. They are a small minority here. And a majority elsewhere. But they believe this crappe primarily for political reasons, as proven by their other signs I haven't listed.
    I am surprised at the enthusiasm with which people surrendered their free-DUMBs after an incident some years ago that killed 2,977 people, because something that kills 0.001% of the population is a grave existential threat. But something that kills more than 200 times as many people (and we're not finished yet) is no big deal, and far less onerous restrictions on behaviour are an intolerable restriction of important civil liberties.

    Oh well.

  14. #2114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    Front page of the local weekly has a story about a 59 year old local woman who didn't trust the vaccine. Now she's dead.
    At least 90 percent of the new dead, were not vaccinated.
    The moment an instant lasted forever, we were destined for the leading edge of eternity.

  15. #2115
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheManWithNoName View Post
    I am surprised at the enthusiasm with which people surrendered their free-DUMBs after an incident some years ago that killed 2,977 people, because something that kills 0.001% of the population is a grave existential threat. But something that kills more than 200 times as many people (and we're not finished yet) is no big deal, and far less onerous restrictions on behaviour are an intolerable restriction of important civil liberties.

    Oh well.
    Do these civil liberties have names, please share.

  16. #2116
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    Quote Originally Posted by bknight View Post
    Do these civil liberties have names, please share.
    Remember when you could carry your own bottle of water on to an aeroplane? Didn't need to display your toiletries and drugs in a little transparent plastic bag for security (and everyone else) to see? Didn't need to remove your shoes and belt and empty your pockets into a little plastic tray? Didn't have your nail-file confiscated because you'd forgotten to put it into your hold luggage? Didn't need to stand in a scanner that essentially allows security personnel to construct a 3D model of your naked body? Didn't need to pitch up at the airport two and a half hours before the departure of your one-hour domestic flight, in order to achieve all of the above?

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  17. #2117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    At least 90 percent of the new dead, were not vaccinated.
    Humans are bad at risk assessment.

    And then, there are those who are willing to ďbite their nose to spite their faceĒ.
    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. - Jimmy Hoffa

  18. #2118
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    Remember when you could carry your own bottle of water on to an aeroplane? Didn't need to display your toiletries and drugs in a little transparent plastic bag for security (and everyone else) to see? Didn't need to remove your shoes and belt and empty your pockets into a little plastic tray? Didn't have your nail-file confiscated because you'd forgotten to put it into your hold luggage? Didn't need to stand in a scanner that essentially allows security personnel to construct a 3D model of your naked body? Didn't need to pitch up at the airport two and a half hours before the departure of your one-hour domestic flight, in order to achieve all of the above?

    Grant Hutchison
    I don't believe anything you listed as a civil liberty but as an inconvenience in the terrorist world of today. Let me ask you is your safety and those around you worth some inconvenience? But if you believe those are civil liberties that is your belief.

  19. #2119
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    Quote Originally Posted by bknight View Post
    I don't believe anything you listed as a civil liberty but as an inconvenience in the terrorist world of today. Let me ask you is your safety and those around you worth some inconvenience? But if you believe those are civil liberties that is your belief.
    Well, the definition of "civil liberty" gets political really quickly, as well as varying somewhat from country to country. But there's no doubt that some people complain that (for instance) Covid mask mandates infringe their "civil liberty", which is the context in which TheManWithNoName used the phrase "an intolerable restriction of important civil liberties"---clearly, I think, lampooning the attitude rather than attempting to make a legally defensible claim on behalf of anti-maskers.

    And if you're a person who considers wearing a face-covering is an infringement of civil liberty then all the things I listed should surely also be considered an infringement of civil liberty.

    So I think your question about the definition of "civil liberties" should really be addressed to the ones doing the complaining, rather than to me or TheManWithNoName, who are just pointing out inconsistencies.

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  20. #2120
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    The Seattle Seahawks first regular-season home games with fans in attendance has just ended.
    They made all the right noises before the game. Attendees over 12 must show proof of vaccination or a Covid test. And everyone in the stadium to be masked.
    Yeah, right.
    TV shots of the fans in the fourth quarter and overtime suggest mask wearing was at about 10%, if that. Not only did I not care that the home team lost in overtime, I thought it was deserved. Now the city, county, or state need to step up and ban live audiences for the rest of the season, since the team obviously doesn't care.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  21. #2121
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    Well, the definition of "civil liberty" gets political really quickly, as well as varying somewhat from country to country. But there's no doubt that some people complain that (for instance) Covid mask mandates infringe their "civil liberty", which is the context in which TheManWithNoName used the phrase "an intolerable restriction of important civil liberties"---clearly, I think, lampooning the attitude rather than attempting to make a legally defensible claim on behalf of anti-maskers.

    And if you're a person who considers wearing a face-covering is an infringement of civil liberty then all the things I listed should surely also be considered an infringement of civil liberty.

    So I think your question about the definition of "civil liberties" should really be addressed to the ones doing the complaining, rather than to me or TheManWithNoName, who are just pointing out inconsistencies.

    Grant Hutchison
    I only directed the comment toward you since you replied.
    I'm not sure that was lampooning either, but it could have been.
    Last edited by bknight; 2021-Sep-20 at 12:47 AM. Reason: addded sure

  22. #2122
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    Well, the definition of "civil liberty" gets political really quickly, as well as varying somewhat from country to country. But there's no doubt that some people complain that (for instance) Covid mask mandates infringe their "civil liberty", which is the context in which TheManWithNoName used the phrase "an intolerable restriction of important civil liberties"---clearly, I think, lampooning the attitude rather than attempting to make a legally defensible claim on behalf of anti-maskers.
    Not clearly enough, apparently, as some seem not to have gotten it even after you pointed it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    And if you're a person who considers wearing a face-covering is an infringement of civil liberty then all the things I listed should surely also be considered an infringement of civil liberty.
    I would agree, but thatís not the sort of thing to which I was referring - these things are small beer compared to some of the other measures that were implemented, and not just in the country that experienced the attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Extravoice View Post
    Humans are bad at risk assessment.
    That was the point of my post #2113. But one of the responses says something about their reading comprehension skills also.

  23. #2123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    At least 90 percent of the new dead, were not vaccinated.
    You mean people dying for the first time?

    Of course, I know what you meant, itís just that when I first read it thatís what came to me.
    As above, so below

  24. #2124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    You mean people dying for the first time?

    Of course, I know what you meant, it’s just that when I first read it that’s what came to me.
    Well since the vaccines do turn you into a zombie, dying multiple times could be an issue.

  25. #2125
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    Quote Originally Posted by bknight View Post
    Do these civil liberties have names, please share.
    It seems to me the poster is complying that some people are willing to put up with inconveniences to combat the relatively small threat of hijacking, but unwilling to put up with inconveniences for the relatively larger threat of COVID. They were not saying they are restrictions of civil liberties, but rather that people who refuse to wear masks complain it is a violation of their liberties.
    As above, so below

  26. #2126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    It seems to me the poster is complying that some people are willing to put up with inconveniences to combat the relatively small threat of hijacking, but unwilling to put up with inconveniences for the relatively larger threat of COVID. They were not saying they are restrictions of civil liberties, but rather that people who refuse to wear masks complain it is a violation of their liberties.
    I'd say 谢谢, except I think it is something completely different in Japanese.

  27. #2127
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    If one were inclined to give one's ideological opponents the benefit of the doubt and assume good-faith motives (which, sadly, no-one seems to want to do anywhere anymore), one might wonder if perhaps lessons were learned over the last 20 years about the wisdom and effectiveness of giving up such freedoms, and people are wary of making a similar mistake again.

    For that matter, considering the prevalence - recently resurgent, it seems - of certain theories about the origins of Covid-19, one might question the wisdom of reminding Americans what they were willing to do the last time their citizens were killed by foreign enemy action.

    (Also, I live in one of the US states that did the least in terms of mandates and lockdowns, and even I have spent far more time with a mask over my face in the last 18 months than I have with my shoes off in an airport in the last 20 years. I'm not sure I agree that the current restrictions are actually "less onerous" in practice, relatively speaking.)
    Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn

  28. #2128
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    On the other hand, if a person has sensitivities about bodily and medical privacy, daily face-covering is a welcome walk in the park, while airport security can reduce one to tears of fear and despair.

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  29. #2129
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    Pfizer has just released data showing that the vaccine, at a considerably lower dose, is safe and effective in children.
    _____________________________________________
    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  30. #2130
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    On the other hand, if a person has sensitivities about bodily and medical privacy, daily face-covering is a welcome walk in the park, while airport security can reduce one to tears of fear and despair.
    Indeed.

    On the third hand, how are vaccine mandates and "passports" going to affect those people with sensitivities about bodily and medical privacy? It seems (to me, anyway) a decidedly different thing when required to go into a restaurant than when required to get on an airplane.
    Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn

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