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Thread: "black hole" mythology

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveC426913 View Post
    We've met the burden of evidence, despite the fact that the onus is not on us to do so.
    All you've proven is that you're willing to accept untestable ideas, which is a strong indication of gullibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveC426913 View Post
    It's time for you to make a valid argument in favour of your (unfounded) belief.
    The "argument" is that "black hole" is an untestable idea and therefore not a scientific hypothesis. Can you refute that?

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  2. #32
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    Do some homework. Get back to us when you know what a black hole is.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    They aren’t arbitrary observations. Theory and observation together went into establishing the existence of black holes.
    What you're leaving out is "experimental verification that the phenomenon exists". Can you provide that?

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by showmeonthedollwhere View Post
    Sooo...your evidence that an object exists from which no radiation can escape is...a picture of it? Hmm. I don't find that convincing. In all honesty a picture of an object kind of proves radiation can escape from it.
    Ah. You might want to read the article I linked to in post two, or better yet do a bit of research on your own before making such statements. Here is the link again:

    https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/edu/news/20...-a-black-hole/

    In fact, the image is of the accretion disk surrounding the black hole, not of the black hole itself. The details of the image, such as how gravity warps the light from the accretion disk (which had been predicted) is supporting evidence that this is a black hole.

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    That certainly does not appear to be historically or scientifically accurate. Could you please explain what you base this claim on?
    I base it on the demonstrable fact that no controlled experiment has produced "black hole" for study. In fact nobody is even trying to. It's an untestable idea that nobody in their right mind would even try to prove exists.

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  6. #36
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    Oh, as a detail, in theory some radiation can escape a black hole. Look up “Hawking radiation.”

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln

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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveC426913 View Post
    It addresses your faulty idea that all science requires controlled experiment.
    Newton must be rolling in his grave right now.

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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveC426913 View Post
    OK, it is apparent that you don't actually know how black holes work, rendering everything you've posted moot.
    Here's a hint: accretion disk.

    Get back to us when you've done some homework.
    Oh, I see. So are you saying we have pictures of "accretion disk" and not "black hole"? You're already one step removed from the object you originally said you had pictures of. I don't blame you. A "disk" is at least something.

    Can you explain why you reject the plasma torus explanation? We see analogues all over the solar system, planets, moons, asteroids, comets, all with toroids around them giving off x-rays. We don't have a single "black hole" doing that in our solar system.

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by showmeonthedollwhere View Post
    I base it on the demonstrable fact that no controlled experiment has produced "black hole" for study. In fact nobody is even trying to. It's an untestable idea that nobody in their right mind would even try to prove exists.
    Then do planets exist? After all, nobody can produce a planet in controlled experiments. Nonetheless, we can observe them, and even theorize about properties and test those theories with more observation. Similarly, do stars exist at all in your view? In fact, what do you accept actually exists, and what do you base it on?

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln

    I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    Ah. You might want to read the article I linked to in post two, or better yet do a bit of research on your own before making such statements. Here is the link again:

    https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/edu/news/20...-a-black-hole/

    In fact, the image is of the accretion disk surrounding the black hole, not of the black hole itself. The details of the image, such as how gravity warps the light from the accretion disk (which had been predicted) is supporting evidence that this is a black hole.
    Without experimental verification of "black hole" we may safely exclude it from any successful explanations of what we see in space.

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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    Oh, as a detail, in theory some radiation can escape a black hole. Look up “Hawking radiation.”
    Yes of course the magical hole with magical properties that can conform to any data set as I mentioned above. In this case they don't emit radiation...until they do.

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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    Then do planets exist? After all, nobody can produce a planet in controlled experiments. Nonetheless, we can observe them, and even theorize about properties and test those theories with more observation. Similarly, do stars exist at all in your view? In fact, what do you accept actually exists, and what do you base it on?
    Of course we can and do prove that rocks can exist and the size of verifiable rocks scales across many orders of magnitude so we may safely believe that rocks the size of planets can exist.

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  13. #43
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    A planet is not just a rock. For one thing, gravity starts becoming significant as mass increases. Rocks don’t hold atmospheres or oceans, they are structurally bound, not bound by gravity. Do you accept that gravity exists? I also notice you didn’t answer the question about stars, or what you think exists in general.

    In any event, it is clear you don’t have a useful argument regarding black holes. You just have a misunderstanding of how science is done.

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln

    I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by showmeonthedollwhere View Post
    ...the size of verifiable rocks scales across many orders of magnitude...
    As does the effect of gravity on the compression of matter.

    I'm curious. What do you think will happen to atoms when they are under a force that exceeds neutron degeneracy? Do you have an hypothesis about some as-yet unknown force that will come into play?

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by showmeonthedollwhere View Post
    Can you explain why you reject the plasma torus explanation? We see analogues all over the solar system, planets, moons, asteroids, comets, all with toroids around them giving off x-rays. We don't have a single "black hole" doing that in our solar system.
    The short answer is that the properties as confirmed by observation, between small close objects and the far, massive object don’t match.

    I have to ask, are you an electric universe/Velikovsky proponent? This whole “science is only done in a laboratory” misconception, the plasma torus stuff and some other comments sound very similar to stuff I have heard from EU believers.

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln

    I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

    The Leif Ericson Cruiser

  16. #46
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