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  1. #1
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    Windows 10 reviews

    Windows 10 is out, and MS are pushing it hard.
    I have 8 and hated it when I first used it, but have managed to get it looking more or less like what I was used to, XP, and am able to tolerate its funny little ways (Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!)
    I suppose that I will have to move to 10 eventually, but I'm inclined to let the 'early adopters' try it out, find the glitches and let MS deal with them, before they bug me.
    And I don't want to miss out on the 'free upgrade' offer by waiting too long.

    So is anyone here an 'early adopter' who has 10?
    Please tell us how you are getting on!

    Thanks,
    John

  2. #2
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    So far, on our desktop, it's been fine - maybe a touch faster. Check the privacy settings once you install, though. Lot's of potential problem areas with shared Wi-Fi access, camera and microphone activation and control, etc., depending on the apps you have. We turned about everything off to start and will only activate certain "features" if they become necessary.

    CJSF
    "The sun is a quagmire
    It's not made of fire
    Forget what you've been told in the past
    Electrons are free
    (Plasma!) Fourth state of matter
    Not gas, not liquid, not solid"

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  3. #3
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    I'm deeply suspicious of the free upgrade. Why is Microsoft suddenly so keen for me to have this particular OS on my machine? What's in it for them? And how are they planning on blighting Windows 7 and 8 when the "free upgrade" period elapses?
    So far, I'm not seeing a reason why I should oblige Microsoft by devoting my time and energy to an upgrade that they tell me is a good idea. A new computer is time enough for a new operating system, usually. (Except for the occasion I downgraded Vista to XP, obviously.)

    Grant Hutchison

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    I'm deeply suspicious of the free upgrade. Why is Microsoft suddenly so keen for me to have this particular OS on my machine? What's in it for them? And how are they planning on blighting Windows 7 and 8 when the "free upgrade" period elapses?
    *nod* Besides the privacy concerns, I'm also suspicious of the "free upgrade for a year" thing. It smells like they're trying to pull off a subscription model. They've been more or less openly hinting at wanting one for 5-10 years now.
    "Words that make questions may not be questions at all."
    - Neil deGrasse Tyson, answering loaded question in ten words or less
    at a 2010 talk MCed by Stephen Colbert.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose View Post
    *nod* Besides the privacy concerns, I'm also suspicious of the "free upgrade for a year" thing. It smells like they're trying to pull off a subscription model. They've been more or less openly hinting at wanting one for 5-10 years now.
    That concern (about the current upgrade offer, at least) seems to have been generated by bad wording on Microsoft's part.
    Terry Myerson, Microsoft's Executive Vice-President in charge of operating systems has written:
    This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no cost.
    So during the next year you get a free upgrade, which is maintained for free in perpetuity. But if you don't upgrade in the next year, then of course Microsoft will do what they like - and, like you, I'm pretty sure a subscription model is looming.

    I guess my main concern is just that we're moving to a model of personal computing I neither need nor want. I've grown up maintaining my own hardware and software, managing my own backups and updates. I don't want this to be supplied instead by a company who will maintain intrusive interest in the contents of my hard drive in order to deliver that service.
    It feels like I'm being forcibly committed to a sheltered housing (= assisted living) scheme.

    Grant Hutchison

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose View Post
    *nod* Besides the privacy concerns, I'm also suspicious of the "free upgrade for a year" thing. It smells like they're trying to pull off a subscription model. They've been more or less openly hinting at wanting one for 5-10 years now.
    As this seems to be your penultimate post, I'm wondering if you're still getting your new OS installation sorted.

  7. #7
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    I was going to wait as well but I didn't want to miss out on the freeliciousness, either. Besides, I like to play. So I loaded it. It does seem a bit snappier to me than Win7 but the most unexpected benefit was drive space. I was down to 85 GB free on the prime SSD and was thinking of getting another and moving some big programs onto it. After the upgrade, I now have 332 GB free. I'm pretty sure a bunch of that was do to a clean out of temp files but still...

    I haven't run into any driver incompatibilities yet but my PC build isn't terribly old. I did note some early bugginess with Edge and games...they would open up to the initial screen and do nothing...but that seems to have resolved. I've done no more than dabble with Edge for a few minutes. I use Chrome with some extensions that apparently don't work with Edge yet. I like the new start menu's blend of traditional links and tiles and the control I have over them. Similar to CJSF, I've turned off some of the more bothersome features and opted out of the targeted content at the MS site.
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  8. #8
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    "Bothersome features", "potential problem areas"? With security? Please tell why you were so concerned?
    I know that MS are hoping to store everything we own "in the Cloud". Was it that?

    Yes, Grant, their enthusiatic generosity does raise suspicion, but it may have to do with getting as many users, especially corporate ones, on the same system.

    I'd say, please treat me as child in this, but children would have no probelm. Please treat me as a near 70 year old, who grew up learning semaphore.
    JOhn

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnD View Post
    "Bothersome features", "potential problem areas"? With security? Please tell why you were so concerned?
    I know that MS are hoping to store everything we own "in the Cloud". Was it that?

    Yes, Grant, their enthusiatic generosity does raise suspicion, but it may have to do with getting as many users, especially corporate ones, on the same system.
    Many folks have concerns about privacy under some provisions in the EULA. It looks like the catch to being free is that MS will be accessing Win10 user information...such as surfing habits, and even e-mail content...in order to deliver targeted advertisements in their products like the new browser, Edge. I also imagine they will sell data to marketers and the like. There are various settings you can choose to limit this and there is an opt-out page for MS account holders on their site.
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  10. #10
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    I wouldn't touch a new MS product for at least a year. Too many bugs and program incompatibles.

  11. #11
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    Email content, or at least where it goes, is already used to target advertisements.
    I use BTinternet for emails, and my 'letterbox' page is flanked by two columns of ads. Those usually are for companies that I have emailed or even whose websites I have visited.
    I don't think MS would be unique in that respect.
    John

  12. #12
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    I have been trying to ugrade from W7 to W10 three times and failed 3 times at the second boot . I was stuck with a blackscreen.
    Microsoft support does not seems to know what to do.
    Luckily I could go back to W7 without problem.

    I hope I will not have to install it without data and applications and then reinstall everything !

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by galacsi View Post
    I have been trying to ugrade from W7 to W10 three times and failed 3 times at the second boot . I was stuck with a blackscreen.
    Microsoft support does not seems to know what to do.
    Luckily I could go back to W7 without problem.

    I hope I will not have to install it without data and applications and then reinstall everything !
    Uninstall any anti-virus, malware protection, etc. I had the issue so I uninstalled a few programs first, I also removed Splashtop software and I would remove anything like CCleaner or firewalls... anything that digs its way deep into the system I'd pull out before running the upgrade. Also a good time to clean out any printer drivers you don't use. And to round it out, I unplugged any peripherals I didn't need during the upgrade. In a company environment, currently you do need to remove a machine from a domain before the upgrade will process right.

    Also, use the media creation tool for the download, it's more robust.

    A bit of system spring cleaning isn't a bad idea when putting any new OS in.

    It's been good for me, I've been pushing my IT customers who are on 8 toward it. Microsoft didn't do any huge overhauls of anything this time around, not of the backwards compatibility issue kind. Same sort of driver models as before, etc; those complaints are mostly due to people going from 32 to 64 bits regardless of OS generation. Even 8 wasn't hugely problematic from the technical side of things as an upgrade, it just had a very poor interface for being productive.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCoyote View Post
    Uninstall any anti-virus, malware protection, etc. I had the issue so I uninstalled a few programs first, I also removed Splashtop software and I would remove anything like CCleaner or firewalls... anything that digs its way deep into the system I'd pull out before running the upgrade. Also a good time to clean out any printer drivers you don't use. And to round it out, I unplugged any peripherals I didn't need during the upgrade. In a company environment, currently you do need to remove a machine from a domain before the upgrade will process right.

    Also, use the media creation tool for the download, it's more robust.

    A bit of system spring cleaning isn't a bad idea when putting any new OS in.

    It's been good for me, I've been pushing my IT customers who are on 8 toward it. Microsoft didn't do any huge overhauls of anything this time around, not of the backwards compatibility issue kind. Same sort of driver models as before, etc; those complaints are mostly due to people going from 32 to 64 bits regardless of OS generation. Even 8 wasn't hugely problematic from the technical side of things as an upgrade, it just had a very poor interface for being productive.
    Thanks ! I have done that and more but my windows update was corrupted and Fixit and other tools could not fix it. So I reintstalled/repaired w7 , now windows update seems ok

    I am not sure what to do ! Chat échaudé craint l'eau froide ! (Once bitten, twice shy !)

  15. #15
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    If there's one thing that might make me shell out money for an unnecessarily more expensive Apple product, it would be if I had to have a subscription to use Windows. At least until Apple goes to subscriptions for its OS.

    CJSF

    P.S.
    Yes, I know, I could go with one of the umpteen flavors of Linux...
    "The sun is a quagmire
    It's not made of fire
    Forget what you've been told in the past
    Electrons are free
    (Plasma!) Fourth state of matter
    Not gas, not liquid, not solid"

    -They Might Be Giants, "Why Does The Sun Really Shine?"


    lonelybirder.org

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJSF View Post
    If there's one thing that might make me shell out money for an unnecessarily more expensive Apple product, it would be if I had to have a subscription to use Windows. At least until Apple goes to subscriptions for its OS.
    I've had the same thought a time or two. During my last PC build, I did consider going with a Mac but to get the same level of hardware came at too dear a cost...more than double. Next time, I may consider building a Hackintosh.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJSF View Post
    If there's one thing that might make me shell out money for an unnecessarily more expensive Apple product, it would be if I had to have a subscription to use Windows. At least until Apple goes to subscriptions for its OS.

    CJSF

    P.S.
    Yes, I know, I could go with one of the umpteen flavors of Linux...
    I put a free installation of CentOS onto an external SATA drive connected to one of my computers that usually runs Windows 7. If I boot from that drive, I get a working environment from which I could seem to do almost anything, but with full control over the directories. I haven't used it much, but I don't see any drawbacks. I suspect that if Windows got too intrusive, I could go with this.

  18. #18
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    JC, did you read my request to please be treated as a demented idiot (AKA old person)?
    Quote, "use the media creation tool for the download"
    "Download" I can understand, but the rest?
    And your suggestion to take the opportunity to spring clean your machine would seem useful, but how would you do so without something like CCleaner?
    How would you go about finding old printer (and other) drivers to delete? Control Panel?

    With your expertise, do you think you could write some guidelines for Aged, please?
    JOhn

  19. #19
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    On which subject (intrusive MS) who the Helen Snowball is "secureserver.net"?

    I've just had an email from them to tell me that a glaringly obvious spam email, that even a sexagenarian like me can spot, " has been cleaned and the infected attachment removed, as it contained a computer virus."
    No shock, Sherlock! It told that I was to appear in Court next week, and that I could see all the details by clicking on this link. Even I would have deleted that as soon as seen.

    So who is "Secureserver"? Google for "secureserver Microsoft" and lots of hits referring to Microsoft - well it would, wouldn't it - but as the Microsoft Secure Server Authority. AUTHORITY! That's the word for a government appointed body. No paranoia, just affronted.
    Is this 'ss' another scammer? Or an MS 'Agency' - with all the dark meanings that word has.
    JOhn
    Last edited by JohnD; 2015-Aug-23 at 04:19 PM.

  20. #20
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    I don't have a lot to add to the overall conversation, except to say my transition from Win 7 Pro to Win 10 went very smoothly, with one minor exception.

    I had to upgrade drivers for my GeForce graphics card before it would recognize my second monitor, or let me set the main monitor to proper resolution.

    As soon as I updated the drivers, poof, everything looks nearly the same.

    The few differences: Programs are all called Apps, now. I think I need to load a program (App?) to give me the colors back on my browser window, if I really want it back.
    My solitaire game got lost, and I have to go through MS Solitaire Collection to play each time.

    I have had no other conflicts at all. I do not think it is any "snappier", but it is not slower either.

    During installation, I opted out of all the "Send info to MS" options. None of them seemed particularly intrusive, but it's just habit.

    As a plus, I discovered that somehow, Windows 7 had given itself permission to use up to 50% of my 1 TB hard drive for back ups. I fixed that problem so my whole HD is no longer filling up with Backup files that I don't need.

    I have not tried the new Windows Edge yet. I still use Firefox, and currently am pleased with the add-ons that I have installed. Until I hear from a good source that I can benefit from using Edge, I will pass on it.

    TJ

  21. #21
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    "Windows EDGE"?????
    What, the frame or something? Please treat me like an idiot, I'm used to it.
    JOhn

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnD View Post
    "Windows EDGE"?????
    What, the frame or something? Please treat me like an idiot, I'm used to it.
    JOhn
    Of course, my calling it Windows Edge doesnt help. Yes, it is Microsoft Edge, the new browser that is replacing IE.

    TJ

  23. #23
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    Thanks, TJMac, and pzkpfy,
    Oh, teeth of the gods, we have to contend with a new browser as well as a new Operating system?

    Thanks, Jim,
    Yes, wait until the early adopter mugs have found the bugs!
    Good idea!
    John

  24. #24
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    It's ("Edge") the new Microsoft Browser, to replace Internet Explorer which M.S. had to admit was a damaged brand.

    If you use a browser in 10, you get Edge by default. I.E. (11, I think) is still available in there.
    Measure once, cut twice. Practice makes perfect.

  25. #25
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    I was thinking of updating, but my kids have some games that just barely work on Win 7, I can't imagine the experience will be better in Windows 10. I haven't checked, but they have Spore, Black and White, Myst (several of the series) and a couple of others.

    If anyone knows for sure, please let me know.
    Solfe

  26. #26
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    One of the IT guys at work loaded 10, then went back to 7 after a week or so. He's going to wait for a few more bugs to get fixed. (There's a full revision due in November.)
    Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
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  27. #27
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    So far, this mug hasn't seen much in the way of bugs in either my desktop or my wife's laptop. The only hiccup was her Start Menu being non-responsive, but that was because she needed to restart for an update. I will say that sometimes I haven't seen any notification of a restart being needed (or of an update at all), but upon shut-down and restart, it will go through a Windows Update routine. This has only happened once for each machine so far, and isn't a deal killer for me as far as the OS goes. At least not to this point.

    CJSF
    "The sun is a quagmire
    It's not made of fire
    Forget what you've been told in the past
    Electrons are free
    (Plasma!) Fourth state of matter
    Not gas, not liquid, not solid"

    -They Might Be Giants, "Why Does The Sun Really Shine?"


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  28. #28
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    I'd say that a non-responsive Start Menu is almost as bad as a non-existent one, but that's just me!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonM435 View Post
    I'd say that a non-responsive Start Menu is almost as bad as a non-existent one, but that's just me!
    Yes, but it resolved once the unheralded Windows Update finished and it's been fine since then.

    CJSF
    "The sun is a quagmire
    It's not made of fire
    Forget what you've been told in the past
    Electrons are free
    (Plasma!) Fourth state of matter
    Not gas, not liquid, not solid"

    -They Might Be Giants, "Why Does The Sun Really Shine?"


    lonelybirder.org

  30. #30
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    The Tech Monthly section of my Sunday paper (the Observer) includes an article "Ten Tips for Windows 10", as follows.
    They are underwhelming at best.

    1/ Add extra desktops.
    2/ Record videos. Apparently so that your gaming exploits can be sent to posterity.
    3/ Write on the Web. This seems to be an Edge (thanks TJMac) facility to annotate and save web pages.
    4/ Switch to Touch Mode. Like 8, but user selectable.
    5/ Cortana. Microsoft's Siri, but only available in the US.
    6/ "Snap to corners" Who? What? "If you like having your apps precisely arranged"
    7/ Save maps for offline use.
    8/ "Get working with your phone". Software more compatible with iOS and Android.
    9/ Turn off Quick Access.
    10/ Customise the Start menu.

    Is the best that a newspaper's PC expert can find to say about W10? 4,7 and 8 are mobile specific. 5 is US only. The rest seem trivial.
    Should we really switch to 10 to get these features of the "most powerful operating system from Microsoft"?
    Will users please tell what they consider are the Top Tips?

    JOhn

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