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Thread: NASA's moon exploration ambitions

  1. #181
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    "NASA publishes 40 years of lunar lander concepts"

    https://spaceq.ca/nasa-publishes-40-...nder-concepts/

    NASA has published an e-book titled After LM – NASA Lunar Lander Concepts Beyond Apollo that traces 40 years of lunar lander concepts after the Apollo program.

    NASA describes the book as follows: “After LM – NASA Lunar Lander Concepts Beyond Apollo tells the story of physics, technology, and the desire to return humans to the lunar surface through technical descriptions, imagery and subsystem mass breakouts of more than 100 lunar lander concepts created by NASA and its contractors since the Apollo program.”

    “The concepts are grouped by the human exploration timelines that defined the post-Apollo period, starting post-Apollo and continuing through the Space Exploration Initiative and the Vision for Space Exploration, and concluding with the many lander designs created to support NASA’s Constellation program. Readers will see the common ‘trades’ that are explored in crewed landing systems, including propellant types, pressurized volumes, structural mass fractions, mass margins, crew size, and special accommodations for ergonomics and other human factors.”
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  2. #182
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    Very nice. It was the authors father that was in JFKs motorcade on that fateful day...

  3. #183
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    These awards are usually what the company bid.

    NASA Human Landing System (HLS) awards

    3 phases,
    Base Obligation: 10 month study
    Option A: for 2024 landing
    Option B: post-2024 missions

    Blue Origin $10.182B (max)
    https://beta.sam.gov/awards/90321762%2BAWARD
    Base Obligation: $213,421,381.00
    Base and Option A: $483,394,546.00
    Base and Option B (Total): $10,182,757,413.00

    Dynetics $5.273B (max)
    https://beta.sam.gov/awards/90129403%2BAWARD
    Base Obligation: $92,242,980.00
    Base and Option A: $237,789,559.00
    Base and Option B (Total): $5,273,244,085.00

    SpaceX $2.252B (max)
    https://beta.sam.gov/awards/90321762%2BAWARD
    Base Obligation: $94,474,607.00
    Base and Option A: $134,959,441.00
    Base and Option B (Total): $2,252,508,638.00
    Last edited by docmordrid; 2020-Jul-05 at 04:06 PM.

  4. #184
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    HLS = Human Lander System

    Marcia Smith @SpcPlcyOnline
    Q (the one asked in my prior tweet)
    Bridenstine: Odds are good of getting HLS $. We need the $3.3 B to get to Moon in 2024 and believe we'll get it after conference w/Senate. Expect CR prob to Christmas and then an omnibus bill with the $3.3B.
    #Glenn2020

    https://twitter.com/SpcPlcyOnline/st...28423873040384

  5. #185
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    "America must return to the moon 'as soon as possible'"

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...to-stay-380250

    "Scientific explorers and commercial pioneers need to get to the moon with diverse people, practices, and profit motivations.," argues Apollo astronaut Harrison Schmitt.
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  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    "America must return to the moon 'as soon as possible'"

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...to-stay-380250
    I read the article and saw no mention of Boeing or the SLS anywhere. Seems odd to be discussing the landing systems while ignoring the rocket that is supposed to get it all there.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
    I read the article and saw no mention of Boeing or the SLS anywhere. Seems odd to be discussing the landing systems while ignoring the rocket that is supposed to get it all there.
    At the very bottom it says, “He is a member of the Blue Origin Science Advisory Board.” I expect it is a paid position. I also thought it was a bit of a slight to mention industry “pioneered reusability and precision rocket stage recovery” but not mention SpaceX. Blue Origin has done it too, but only with a suborbital hopper. This was very clearly a focused promotion.

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  8. #188
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    No mention of the Dynetics effort, either. They really do make it sound like there's one and only one Human Landing System, being produced by Blue Origin, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, and Draper, calling them "the National Team".

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    At the very bottom it says, “He is a member of the Blue Origin Science Advisory Board.” I expect it is a paid position. I also thought it was a bit of a slight to mention industry “pioneered reusability and precision rocket stage recovery” but not mention SpaceX. Blue Origin has done it too, but only with a suborbital hopper. This was very clearly a focused promotion.
    So basically a paid advert.

  10. #190
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    In light of the Artemis lunar landing/base program going jnternational,...

    JAXA/Toyota crew Moon rover for the Artemis program.

    JAXA+Toyota Moon rover.jpg

    https://youtu.be/KhhOPUzvE7U

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmordrid View Post
    In light of the Artemis lunar landing/base program going jnternational,...

    JAXA/Toyota crew Moon rover for the Artemis program.

    JAXA+Toyota Moon rover.jpg

    https://youtu.be/KhhOPUzvE7U
    Why not ex-GM engineers designed the Lunar Rover. I wouldn't be surprised if Elon jumped into the search for more money.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by bknight View Post
    Why not ex-GM engineers designed the Lunar Rover. I wouldn't be surprised if Elon jumped into the search for more money.
    As with ISS, each partner nation contributes a module, vehicle, etc. and astronauts.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmordrid View Post
    As with ISS, each partner nation contributes a module, vehicle, etc. and astronauts.
    And US companies are vying to build parts of the system.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by bknight View Post
    And US companies are vying to build parts of the system.
    Build and launch, with Falcon Heavy doing a lot of the heavy lifting (Power & Propulsion Element, HALO habitat, Dragon XL).

    P&PE is based on a Maxar (Canada) satellite bus, HALO is based in N-G's Cygnus spacecraft, DXL is based on Cargo Dragon 2, the robotic arm is a Canadarm, some modules are European,....

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by bknight View Post
    Why not ex-GM engineers designed the Lunar Rover. I wouldn't be surprised if Elon jumped into the search for more money.
    Didn't they already float a concept with the Cybertruck:

    tesla-cybertruck-6x6-mars-rover-will-conque-planets-plant-potatoes_2.jpg

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmordrid View Post
    Build and launch, with Falcon Heavy doing a lot of the heavy lifting (Power & Propulsion Element, HALO habitat, Dragon XL).

    P&PE is based on a Maxar (Canada) satellite bus, HALO is based in N-G's Cygnus spacecraft, DXL is based on Cargo Dragon 2, the robotic arm is a Canadarm, some modules are European,....
    I'm gonna need a catalog for all of these participants.

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlaugh View Post
    I'm gonna need a catalog for all of these participants.
    Add Toyota as a JAXA partner - they offered a crewed Moon rover.

    https://youtu.be/KhhOPUzvE7U

    and of course there's the human lander contract; Dynetics, Blue Origin's National Team, and SpaceX's Lunar Starship.

  18. #198
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    The Blue Origin-led "America's Team" commercial lunar lander competition mockup. Video & comments at the tweets.

    With SpaceX's Starship doing test hops, leading to high altitude flights later this year, this could get interesting...

    IMG_20200820_200009.jpg

    https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/...64407287955457

    https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/...65504354422784

  19. #199
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    "NASA Enlists Commercial Partners to Fly Payloads to Moon"

    https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-en...yloads-to-moon

    NASA has issued another request to its 14 Commercial Lunar Payload Services (CLPS) partners to bid on flying a suite of payloads to the Moon. The request asks partners to fly 10 NASA science investigations and technology demonstrations to a non-polar region of the Moon in 2022.

    Through the CLPS initiative, NASA taps its commercial partners to quickly land scientific instruments and technology demonstrations on the Moon. The initiative is a key part of NASA’s Artemis program. The science and technology payloads will help lay the foundation for human missions to the lunar surface. A provider will be selected by the end of the year, making it the sixth surface task award.

    The payloads, collectively expected to be about 200 pounds (100 kg) in mass, include:
    I am because we are
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  20. #200
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    NASA wants to buy moon rocks from commercial companies

    Request For Quotations
    https://beta.sam.gov/opp/77726177617...4/view#general

    Verge article
    https://www.theverge.com/platform/am...ar-marketplace

  21. #201
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    "Space resources are the key to safe and sustainable Lunar exploration"

    https://www.moondaily.com/reports/Sp...ation_999.html

    As we at NASA are working aggressively to meet our near-term goal of landing the first woman and next man on the Moon by 2024, our Artemis program also is focused on taking steps that will establish a safe and sustainable lunar exploration architecture.

    Moreover, leveraging commercial involvement as part of Artemis will enhance our ability to safely return to the Moon in a sustainable, innovative, and affordable fashion. The President's Executive Order on Encouraging International Support for the Recovery and Use of Space Resources clarifies Congress' intent clarifies that it is the policy of the United States to encourage international support for the public and private recovery and use of resources in outer space, consistent with applicable law. We know a supportive policy regarding the recovery and use of space resources is important to the creation of a stable and predictable investment environment for commercial space innovators and entrepreneurs.
    I am because we are
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  22. #202
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    "A roadmap for science on the moon"

    https://www.moondaily.com/reports/A_..._moon_999.html

    Scientists at the University of Colorado Boulder have laid out a roadmap for a decade of scientific research at the Moon.

    Teams from the university will participate in four upcoming or proposed space missions that seek to use the Moon as a unique laboratory for peering back to the dawn of the cosmos - collecting unprecedented data on an epoch in the life of the universe before the first stars formed.

    The first of these efforts will deploy an instrument called Radio wave Observations at the Lunar Surface of the photoElectron Sheath (ROLSES). It's slated to land on the Moon in just over a year. Another involves a proposed satellite known as the Dark Ages Polarimetry Pathfinder (DAPPER). It could be in orbit around the Moon by the decade's midway mark.

    "It's a completely unexplored part of the early universe, which we call the Dark Ages," said Jack Burns, a professor in the Department of Astrophysical and Planetary Sciences at CU Boulder. "We have no data from this period and no prospect of getting any data using traditional telescopes like the Hubble Space Telescope."

    Burns described the four missions during a virtual talk this month at the annual meeting of Lunar Exploration Advisory Group (LEAG), a scientific advisory body for NASA.

    NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine, who also attended the meeting, shared in the excitement. "One of the missions that has me really excited is DAPPER," he said in a talk. "We're going to be able to see the Dark Ages after the Big Bang and before Cosmic Dawn."
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  23. #203
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    Not to throw cold water on this baby and I'm all for exploration (manned and unmanned), but the history of unmanned explorations have tended to raise more questions than answer them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bknight View Post
    Not to throw cold water on this baby and I'm all for exploration (manned and unmanned), but the history of unmanned explorations have tended to raise more questions than answer them.
    I see them as complementary. The robotic missions would lay the foundation of our new area of exploration. It will take humans to think out of the box to advance that knowledge at an accelerated rate.

    What would be even more useful is if US Luna scientist could talk to their Chinese counterparts, so we do not waste precious robotic resources doing the same thing.
    I am because we are
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  25. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by bknight View Post
    Not to throw cold water on this baby and I'm all for exploration (manned and unmanned), but the history of unmanned explorations have tended to raise more questions than answer them.
    The more we can find out before risking human lives, the better. Send expendable machines in first to pave the way... maybe literally pave if we have robots build a Moon base.

    Besides, the manned missions raised lots of questions too.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  26. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    The more we can find out before risking human lives, the better. Send expendable machines in first to pave the way... maybe literally pave if we have robots build a Moon base.

    Besides, the manned missions raised lots of questions too.
    You complety misses the pony of my comment.

  27. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by bknight View Post
    You complety misses the pony of my comment.
    Then please explain, by all means.
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  28. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by bknight View Post
    Not to throw cold water on this baby and I'm all for exploration (manned and unmanned), but the history of unmanned explorations have tended to raise more questions than answer them.
    That may be true, but I'm not sure if it's a bad thing. Raising questions is probably just as important as answering questions.
    As above, so below

  29. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Then please explain, by all means.
    The history of unmanned explorations have tended to raise more questions than answer them.

  30. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by bknight View Post
    The history of unmanned explorations have tended to raise more questions than answer them.
    Can you elaborate, or at least give examples or something? Science has always been about finding new questions.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

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