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Thread: Baseball question

  1. #121
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    I was at a minor league game years ago where one player* spent an inning at each position. Pitcher was saved for last. He got one out, and then the manager pulled him. We booed.

    *Howie Clark, who went on to spend some years in the majors with Toronto and Baltimore. Now a hitting coach in Baltimore's farm system.
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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToSeek View Post
    I was at a minor league game years ago where one player* spent an inning at each position. Pitcher was saved for last. He got one out, and then the manager pulled him. We booed.

    *Howie Clark, who went on to spend some years in the majors with Toronto and Baltimore. Now a hitting coach in Baltimore's farm system.
    I'd have booed, too - If he only recorded one out as pitcher, then he didn't play an inning at each position.

    I think usually when they do that - and it's even been done in the majors a couple times - the player in question pitches the first inning. It'd be a shame to have a not-usual pitcher give up a walk-off in the ninth.

    EDIT: I should say "game-winner" rather than "walk-off", since it's usually a home team player...
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  3. #123
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    The first major leaguer to play nine positions in a single game was Bert Campaneris of the Kansas City A’s on September 8, 1965. He’d shown versatility in the minor leagues, hence this strange idea. Bert began the game at his regular shortstop position, then played second, third, left, center, right, first, pitcher and catcher in that order.


    If I remember correctly, three men have done it since. These were all blatant* publicity stunts, and the A’s almost lived to regret theirs, as Campy, their star, got leveled in a home plate collision with Ed Kirkpatrick (a real catcher running the bases) on a double steal while behind the plate in the ninth inning, as the California Angels beat the A’s 5-3 in 13 innings. You might insist that in the tenth, Campaneris played that tenth position, well known to “sandlot” players: left out. He was X-rayed at the hospital, but released. A’s owner Charles O. Finley had taken out a million dollar insurance policy in case of an injury to Campaneris.

    Campaneris walked, stole second and scored in the first, but was hitless thereafter. He made putouts in lf, cf and at 1b, had an assist at 2b, and committed an error in rf.


    Pitching in the eighth, Campy retired his cousin, Jose Cardenal on a popup. He walked Albie Pearson and Jim Fregosi. Joe Adcock singled home a run, after which Bobby Knoop struck out and Fregosi got thrown out trying to steal. This leaves Bert with a lifetime ERA of 9.00.


    Interesting coincidence: A journeyman outfielder named Lu Clinton played for three teams in the space of three games in September 1965. The California Angels dealt him to the Kansas City A’s September 9 for the waiver price, but by the time that he had played one game in K.C., it was found that the Cleveland Indians had a prior claim on him. So, he moved on to finish the season with the Indians. Clinton’s only game for the A’s (he played briefly in right field and went 0-for-1) was this one.



    *Ever seen a subtle publicity stunt?
    Last edited by DonM435; 2016-Nov-26 at 08:54 PM. Reason: 9 positions, not just 9 innings!

  4. #124
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    One other negatively remarkable pitching performance was turned in by Al Travers for the Detroit Tigers on May 18, 1912.

    What happened was that Tiger superstar Ty Cobb got himself suspended for attacking a heckling fan in the stands. His team decided that the New York team's crowd control had been faulty, and they all walked off the job in sympathy a day later. Detroit's management had to put a makeshift team on the field for their next game at Philadelphia, because they'd have to pay a hefty fine for not showing up. They recruited local semi-pro and amateurs from the area, as well as returning their manager and a couple of their coaches to active duty.

    They did not expect to prevail, only to save a few bucks. The grab-bag team lost by a 24-2 score. The pitcher was Al Travers, whose sole qualification was having tried out for his college team. He did throw a complete game. His record:

    ___________________IP H_ R ER BB SO HR
    Travers L(0-1)_____ 8 26 24 ? 7 1 0


    The box score is available, but the play-by-play is elusive. Earned runs are not known, and the sub-Tigers did make seven errors that day, so Travers ERA is undoubtedly better than the 27.00 indicated by his runs-per-nine-innings.

    Sometime after this fiasco, Cobb urged his teammates to abandon the strike. The one-day major leaguers went back to their day jobs. (One of them did make a single appearance years later.)

    No, Travers did not flee to a monastery after his mound ordeal, but he later became a Catholic priest.
    Last edited by DonM435; 2016-Dec-11 at 06:48 PM.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonM435 View Post
    No, Travers did not flee to a monastery after his mound ordeal, but he later became a Catholic priest.
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  6. #126
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    My brother once threw a no-hitter in slo-pitch intramural softball in college. That strikes me as an unusual feat..
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    My brother once threw a no-hitter in slo-pitch intramural softball in college. That strikes me as an unusual feat..
    Indeed. The only thing more unlikely would be a no-hitter in tee-ball.

  8. #128
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    Intramural in college? If the game was played on a Sunday morning, I could see it. At least, based on my college experience.


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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonM435 View Post
    Indeed. The only thing more unlikely would be a no-hitter in tee-ball.
    Who'd be credited with it?

    I heard a comedy routine by a fellow who dislikes baseball. His roommate was extolling the "perfect game" a pitcher had the night before.

    "What's a perfect game?"
    "That's where the other team doesn't get any runs or hits."
    "So a perfect game is when nothing happens?"
    "Well, the pitcher's team gets some hits and runs."
    "What if the other pitcher throws a perfect game, too? Would the game just go on forever? And would that be a most perfect game?"
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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Would the game just go on forever?
    There are two types of people; those who consider this a feature of the game, and those who consider it a flaw.


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  11. #131
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    Broadcaster: Sorry that our radio station has been off the air until now due to technical problems. We're in the ninth inning, and both pitchers have no-hitters going. So, you see, you haven't missed a thing!

  12. #132
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    Wouldn't a truly perfect game be 27 outs on 27 pitches?

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Wouldn't a truly perfect game be 27 outs on 27 pitches?
    Or 24 of each, if you pitch for the home team.
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  14. #134
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    But, but, if your team is going to win then the other team will get to bat in all nine innings, right?

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    Or 24 of each, if you pitch for the home team.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    But, but, if your team is going to win then the other team will get to bat in all nine innings, right?
    D'oh!

    Yes, of course. Now that I think of it, the smallest possible number of pitches in a complete game is 25, 24 one-pitch outs and a home run, by the visiting pitcher.
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  16. #136
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    Theoretically, the fewest batters you can face while getting a complete game pitched is 13, as a visiting pitcher in a (rain-shortened) game that goes just 4-1/2 innings, if you retire everybody except for one guy who scores the only run in a 1-0 game.

    As Bill James noted in one of his books, it actually happened on July 30, 1971. Dick Drago (K.C. Royals) retired 12 of 13 Baltimore batters, all except Frank Robinson, who homered in the first. Jim Palmer got a shutout win, allowing two hits.

    http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1...300BAL1971.htm

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfribrg View Post
    Last week, I was at the ballpark watching my Phavorite baseball team lose in extra innings. In the bottom of the tenth, my team had the bases loaded with two outs. I noticed that next batter was in the on-deck circle. The question in my mind is why. The current batter will either end the game by getting on base or the game will go to the 11th inning. There is no way the on-deck batter will bat in the current inning, so why bother warming up? He wasn't just standing there either. He was swinging the bat with the donut and stretching, etc. Is there a rule that the on-deck circle must be occupied even in the situation I just described?
    So if a team pulls into the lead when the other team has no opportunity to respond, the game ends immediately, even though there are not three outs?

    I did not know that.

  18. #138
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    Now that I think about it, the one out per pitch game isn't necessarily a no-hitter. Someone could get on base and then the next batter hits into a double play.

    Even more impressive would be 27 consecutive strikeouts with the fielders having nothing to do.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Now that I think about it, the one out per pitch game isn't necessarily a no-hitter. Someone could get on base and then the next batter hits into a double play.

    Even more impressive would be 27 consecutive strikeouts with the fielders having nothing to do.
    Minor league pitcher Ron Necciai once achieved 27 strikeouts in a nine-inning no-hitter.

    It’s not as if he struck out everybody, though. One opponent was retired on a ground out. However, Necciai also had a four-strikeout inning because one of the strikeout victims reached base on a passed ball. (In this case, the pitcher still gets credit for the strikeout, even though it wasn’t an out.)

    Sadly, his time in the major leagues was very brief.

    Details here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Necciai


    The major league record remains at 20 strikeouts for a 9-inning game (several times), and 21 for extra innings:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Cheney_(baseball)

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop View Post
    So if a team pulls into the lead when the other team has no opportunity to respond, the game ends immediately, even though there are not three outs?

    I did not know that.
    I think that in the earliest years of American professional baseball, the 1870s, they required a team to complete the last half-inning even if the game were clinched, but they quit doing that pretty swiftly. There would be questions of how hard a team was trying when playing on after the game had been irrevocably decided: they’d probably just try to pad out their personal statistics. And of course, as soon as some star player got injured in superfluous play, objections would be raised.

  21. #141
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    Originally Posted by jfribrg
    Last week, I was at the ballpark watching my Phavorite baseball team lose in extra innings. In the bottom of the tenth, my team had the bases loaded with two outs. I noticed that next batter was in the on-deck circle. The question in my mind is why. The current batter will either end the game by getting on base or the game will go to the 11th inning. There is no way the on-deck batter will bat in the current inning, so why bother warming up? He wasn't just standing there either. He was swinging the bat with the donut and stretching, etc. Is there a rule that the on-deck circle must be occupied even in the situation I just described?
    It's a small chance but the batter at home plate could be injured or otherwise forced to abandon the at-bat without recording an out. So you want a warmed-up batter in the on-deck circle; in this case, the on-deck batter is essentially a backup. The on-deck batter also has a role to help the player running from third. Can't easily do that from the dugout.

  22. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlaugh View Post
    It's a small chance but the batter at home plate could be injured or otherwise forced to abandon the at-bat without recording an out. So you want a warmed-up batter in the on-deck circle; in this case, the on-deck batter is essentially a backup.
    No - if the batter is unable to finish the at-bat, they need to be replaced by someone who is not already in the line-up.

    Quote Originally Posted by schlaugh View Post
    The on-deck batter also has a role to help the player running from third. Can't easily do that from the dugout.
    This is true.
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  23. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlaugh View Post
    It's a small chance but the batter at home plate could be injured or otherwise forced to abandon the at-bat without recording an out. So you want a warmed-up batter in the on-deck circle; in this case, the on-deck batter is essentially a backup. The on-deck batter also has a role to help the player running from third. Can't easily do that from the dugout.
    No, that wouldn't work. If the player at bat can't complete his (or her) turn, a pinch-hitter is required. They can't skip his turn and go on to the next batter in the order.

    You're correct in that the man in the on-deck circle can serve as an extra coach on the field.

  24. #144
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    Errrt...you (both) are correct. Had forgotten that bit about not skipping the player.


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  25. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonM435 View Post
    Indeed. The only thing more unlikely would be a no-hitter in tee-ball.
    Well, if all the "hits" were ruled to be errors, that would be a no-hitter. But I've never seen a T-ball game where the score keeping was that precise.

  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Who'd be credited with it?
    When I coached T-ball, we always had a player stand at the pitchers position. So, he'd get credit.

  27. #147
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    That somehow reminds me of an old Johnny Carson joke: He explained that the [World Champion] Yankees and the [awful] Mets got rained out in their annual exhibition game the previous night.

    "The Mets were winning 1-0. [Pause.] Of course, the Yankees hadn't shown up yet."
    Last edited by DonM435; 2016-Dec-16 at 02:51 PM.

  28. #148
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    It looks as if Willie Mays may pick up at least one additional career home run, decades after his retirement.

    The administrators of Major League Baseball just announced that the major Negro Leagues of the segregated era will be retroactively designated as "major leagues."
    Mays collected 10 hits in a short stint with the Birmingham Black Barons in 1948, several years before he joined the New York Giants. They're digging now to find out if any of those were homers. (The statistical record is incomplete and has some contradictions.)

    The historical, official "major league" definition includes -- besides the National and American Leagues -- the Federal League of 1914-15, the pre-1901 National League, and several other 19th century leagues. If the definition can be stretched to cover that far back, then it's a reasonable argument that it cover the Negro leagues. The statistical record will be a subject of lively debate.

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