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Thread: Sports Statistics and Kilopi

  1. #1
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    Sports Statistics and Kilopi

    27 major league baseball players have collected 3,000 or more hits. Robin Yount ('74-'93) retired with 3,142, and Tony Gwynn ('82-'01) had 3,141. These two are the closest amongst the 27 in terms of total hits (except for one other pairing that involves some questionable 19th century records.)

    A hypothetical Kid Kilopi would of course ring in at 3,141.5926 and so on (never mind how one earns a fractional hit, and an irrational fraction at that.) Thus, Yount and Gwynn are baseball's Pi Crusts, as they surround this figure on both sides.

    Unfortunately, the most appropriate Hall-of-Famer to stand amongst them, Pie Traynor ('20-'37), quit after just 2,416 hits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DonM435 View Post
    ... 3,141.5926 ... (never mind how one earns a fractional hit, and an irrational fraction at that.) ...
    That fraction is awarded to any Red Sox player with two strikes on his count who hits a foul ball that knocks out a loud-mouth Yankees fan.

    Only valid at Fenway.

    Go Red Sox!

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    You used to get bonus points for fouling one off Don Zimmer's head, but he's moved on to a safer place.

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    Let's see, a bad golfer who's 5 over par could instead say that he's 1.8584 over pi. Sounds better.

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    I've often wondered how the computer error "NaN" (Not a Number) works.. how does it know!? Finally, reading this thread, an epiphany.. the computer checks the input against baseball statistics. If it isn't in there, it can't be a number.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slang View Post
    I've often wondered how the computer error "NaN" (Not a Number) works.. how does it know!? Finally, reading this thread, an epiphany.. the computer checks the input against baseball statistics. If it isn't in there, it can't be a number.
    Or else it can't be a very important number!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kleindoofy View Post
    That fraction is awarded to any Red Sox player with two strikes on his count who hits a foul ball that knocks out a loud-mouth Yankees fan. Only valid at Fenway. Go Red Sox!
    I have nooooo idea, my dear...doofy, what you are talking about...buuut, may I add-in to my same inquisitive confusion...for non cricketing BAUTzens...
    Quote Originally Posted by Don435 View Post
    ...never mind how one earns a fractional hit, and an irrational fraction at that.) ...
    ... that more often than not, a fractional hit, catching the outside edge of the bat, usually deflects the ball to slips, and may be caught. The batsman (woman) then returns to the pavilion for a nice cup of tea.

    The other side of this is that a fractional hit may be an inside edge, in which case the batsman is likely bowled and returns for tea. In such circumstances, such hits are adjudged irrational, by all and sundry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahesh View Post
    ... cricket...
    One of the most appealing features of cricket is that neither the NY Yankees nor Bayern München have a team.

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    Fun With Sport Numbers

    Baseball has one statistic that can go infinite: if a pitcher allows at least one earned run and gets nobody out, his (or her) ERA (Earned Run Average) will be infinite, as innings pitched is the divisor, and you get 1/3 innings pitched for each out. (I suppose that innings pitched, which is broken down to thirds, is a rare fractional statistic.)

    In pro football, you have a number of possible infinites. If there's a successful lateral pass on a play (rush, pass reception, kick return, interception return, et c.), the second player to handle the ball can gain (or lose) yards but is not charged with an "attempt," because the first player got that, and the team has to be credited only one attempt. So, you can have eight yards on "zero" receptions, or "one" kickoff return for 117 yards.

    Of course, football has negative stats (when yards are lost) that you don't see in baseball. Pro football also has a fractional statistic: sometimes two defenders are credited with half a "sack" each.

    In hockey, I remember that goaltender Glenn Hall of the Chicago Black Hawks was once brought in off the bench just to defend against a penalty shot. A goal was scored, and Hall then left the game in favor of the starting goalie. As the clock didn't move, not even one second, his goals-against average for that game was infinite.

    I don't follow basketball or soccer very much, so someone else can tell us about those.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DonM435 View Post
    Baseball has one statistic that can go infinite: if a pitcher allows at least one earned run and gets nobody out, his (or her) ERA (Earned Run Average) will be infinite, as innings pitched is the divisor, and you get 1/3 innings pitched for each out. (I suppose that innings pitched, which is broken down to thirds, is a rare fractional statistic.)

    In pro football, you have a number of possible infinites. If there's a successful lateral pass on a play (rush, pass reception, kick return, interception return, et c.), the second player to handle the ball can gain (or lose) yards but is not charged with an "attempt," because the first player got that, and the team has to be credited only one attempt. So, you can have eight yards on "zero" receptions, or "one" kickoff return for 117 yards.

    Of course, football has negative stats (when yards are lost) that you don't see in baseball. Pro football also has a fractional statistic: sometimes two defenders are credited with half a "sack" each.

    In hockey, I remember that goaltender Glenn Hall of the Chicago Black Hawks was once brought in off the bench just to defend against a penalty shot. A goal was scored, and Hall then left the game in favor of the starting goalie. As the clock didn't move, not even one second, his goals-against average for that game was infinite.

    I don't follow basketball or soccer very much, so someone else can tell us about those.
    The next challenge is to find (or invent) a statistic that could involve imaginary numbers.
    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

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    New exhibition at Lord's How Cricket and Baseball Connect

    Which countries played the first ever international game of cricket? (America and Canada, apparently)
    Who won the first baseball World Cup? (England)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToSeek View Post
    The next challenge is to find (or invent) a statistic that could involve imaginary numbers.
    That's easy.

    Any statistic pertaining to F1 "racing" involves imaginary numbers.

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    Don't forget professional wrestling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToSeek View Post
    The next challenge is to find (or invent) a statistic that could involve imaginary numbers.
    I have a pod in which I keep all my imaginary numbers. I'll see if I can fish some out.

    Oh, and Gillian, once it's been seen I don't think anyone ever forgets wrestling. It's like witnessing a dog mauling a postman.

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    I'm not claiming wrestling is forgettable. I'm claiming it's fake. Hardly unusual.
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    The mods can decide whether that's ATM. *cough cough*

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    One mod did decide that this line of reasoning required its own thread.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

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    Which supercool Mod did that?

    I notice it's in OTB. Ergo wrestling is fake.

    I'm going to need a moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToSeek View Post
    The next challenge is to find (or invent) a statistic that could involve imaginary numbers.
    that's going to be nearly impossible.. it seems like there is a statistic for every possible thing that can happen in any form of modern sports.
    "so and so has a .214 batting average on sunny days, but it goes up to .216 when there is more than a 37% chance of rain in the coming 3.5 hours, but goes down to .213 when there is a flock of sparrows flying past the front of the stadium"..
    not only do these stats give the tv announcers something to talk about when they are filling time between scratches, but every one of these stats also has some sort of significance for the people that are involved in fantasy leagues..

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    For a statistic that uses imaginary numbers, it's easy to imagine how it might happen. Suppose you don't have a tape measure, so you measured the length of a football pass by using the Pythagorean theorem while measuring forward and sideways. If the pass happened to go backwards (I don't know if that's permitted in football rules though), you'd get an imaginary number.
    As above, so below

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToSeek View Post
    The next challenge is to find (or invent) a statistic that could involve imaginary numbers.
    Really, it is quite easy. The number of championship teams in any major sport in Cleveland, Ohio in the last 46 years is an imaginary number.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    Really, it is quite easy. The number of championship teams in any major sport in Cleveland, Ohio in the last 46 years is an imaginary number.
    Damn you Swift; I was going to post the exact same thing but it was after 5:00 and I wanted to get out of the office. Bah.

    Great fans of crappy sports teams think alike, I guess. Not as catchy as the traditional saying though . . .

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    Great minds think alike....

    What's our excuse?
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    NHL:

    Tim Hunter retired with the closest number of Penalty-in-Minutes (PIM) to kilopi (3 146 PIM).

    There are seven players with more than that: Tiger Williams (3 966), Dale Hunter (3 565), Tie Domi (3 515), Marty McSorley (3 381), Bob Probert (3 300), Rob Ray (3 207) and Craig Berube (3 149).

    Bob Essensa has the closest career goals-against-average to pi at 3.147.

    Jari Kurri has the closest career number of shots taken on goal to kilopi with 3142 shots.

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    That two baseball players finished quite near the threshold of the Pi Kilohit Club is probably explainable statistically. As 3,000 is a well-known goal, anyone who attains it and finishes out a season or plays one more part-time (of course he's getting on in years) is bound to finish in the vicinity of 3,140-something. Pitcher Gaylord Perry retired with 314 wins (just missing pi hectowins), and two others are quite close to him. Same deal, I think.

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    In baseball, there are some Pi stats that are difficult, but certainly reachable. A season batting average of .3142 while on the high side, is certainly within the range of many current hitters. Similarly, a starting pitcher with an ERA of 3.142 for the season is possible.
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    ERA is (9*EarnedRuns)/InningsPitched. We know that 355/113 is pretty close to pi, so if you pitched 113 innings and allowed 39 4/9 runs . . . Hmmm, can't do that. However, 4,068, which is 36 times 113, would represent a good, long-but-not-too-long career. (I used 36 because it's a multiple of 9.) If you pitched that many innings and gave up 1,420 earned runs, you'd ring in at 3.1415929. I suspect that 5,085 (45 times 113) innings could get you slightly closer, but only about a dozen pitchers in history, including some real old-timers, are in that category.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DonM435 View Post
    However, 4,068, which is 36 times 113, would represent a good, long-but-not-too-long career. (I used 36 because it's a multiple of 9.) If you pitched that many innings and gave up 1,420 earned runs, you'd ring in at 3.1415929. I suspect that 5,085 (45 times 113) innings could get you slightly closer, but only about a dozen pitchers in history, including some real old-timers, are in that category.
    You don't need to go to 4068 innings (which only about 40 pitchers have done EDIT: in the major leagues). You can get that 3.1415929 with 355 earned runs in 1017 innings, or 710 earned runs in 2034 innings.

    And given the minimal difference between 355/113 and pi, wouldn't you need several million innings for a single earned run to get you closer?
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    103993/33102
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenrikOlsen View Post
    103993/33102
    ERA, as DonM said, is (Earned Runs * 9) / Innings Pitched. If 103993 = Earned Runs * 9, then Earned Runs is not an integer. Can't do that.

    However, 33102 * 9 is 297918. So 103993 Earned Runs allowed in 297918 Innings Pitched would give you an ERA of about 3.141592653.

    So now I've got to figure out why my estimation was off by (at least) a factor of ten. Probably misplaced a decimal point..
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